Couch hopping isn't home

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:23] Speaker B: Welcome back to Sheboygan. Stories unhoused and unheard of. Scott. I'm your host, Scott labonte. Today we're talking about a side of homelessness that's often invisible. No tents, no sleeping bags, on sidewalks. Instead, spare bedrooms, basements, cars. It's called couch hopping. And for too many people, especially young adults, it's the only option that they have. Our guest today knows this life firsthand. They've been balancing survival, friendships, uncertainty, all without a place to call their own. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing something very personal. Could you start by telling us your name and a little bit about your journey, how you got here? [00:01:00] Speaker A: My name is Shanna, and thank you for having me. I appreciate that. My journey just started as any other. I grew up here in Sheboygan. I'm a Sheboygan native. I was in the church. I grew up in a parochial school, very traditionally educated and family orientated. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:20] Speaker A: And I was with a single mom. My parents were divorced as I was two. I am the oldest of four siblings. I. So I became this journey here. I guess I became a single mom at 19. The father of my child was locked up. He became locked up several times during the course of our relationship, and we had three children together, and he came to the relationship with two children. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:51] Speaker A: So it was a big family. You know, I grew up very with a lot of kids. Like, it was just that natural caretaking kind of environment that I always kind of grew up in, being the oldest and I was trying to take care of somebody. I have a significant age difference between me and my two younger siblings. [00:02:09] Speaker B: I get that. [00:02:10] Speaker A: My brother is only two years apart, and my two younger sisters are 13 and 9 years old. Oh, all right. So I was like a caretaking. I'm the oldest, kind of just kind of naturally evolved into a family right off the bat. I loved it. I loved being a mom. I loved being. It's just something special that just can't. You can't explain. You can't put it into words. It's just amazing. But through the course of that, I had to kind of find different ways to make a living. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:40] Speaker A: And it naturally progressed to an illegal kind of lifestyle. [00:02:49] Speaker B: That happens very quickly and very easily. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Right. And it just kind of just went from there. And then through the course of my life, just different things and different situations just kind of hit me a little harder. And being the single mom, you wanted to keep it together. You didn't really want to admit that. [00:03:08] Speaker B: You were sinking that things were really getting to that point, yes. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Right. Because I was kind of the go to person. You know, people come to me. Right. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Go to people don't have people to go to. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Right, right. You know, you're just there. [00:03:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:20] Speaker A: And you were the one to do it. And then you got older and you're like, well, I'm a mom, I'm an adult, I can handle this. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:27] Speaker A: And then you. [00:03:28] Speaker B: I can figure this out somehow. [00:03:29] Speaker A: Right. I got this, you know, and it got to the point where I didn't get evolved. And then because of the course of this, I suffered from mental health. I had some mental health issues that weren't maybe addressed correctly or I wasn't through the course of different things on it. None knew the right words to use to get the help that I correctly need. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:56] Speaker A: I didn't know how to verbalize. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Understandable. [00:03:58] Speaker A: I kind of grew up in what happens in the house stays in the house. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Yes. So that was the area era that, like, I grew up as well. [00:04:07] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. It's just, you know, what happens here stays here. [00:04:09] Speaker B: That's it. [00:04:10] Speaker A: That's how we work. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:12] Speaker A: And then there's always a pretense of, you know, you had to keep it together for whoever you had to have that pretense of you actually had your stuff together, when in reality, you were. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Just that facade that everything is fine, you're floating, you're right where you need to be. When in reality, you're inside, you're going. [00:04:29] Speaker A: To, oh, my God. [00:04:30] Speaker B: What am I? [00:04:31] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. So through the course of this, I. I had four children. And because of the. Of the lifestyle and the mental health issues and just different circumstances that I've experienced, I. I caught my first drug felony in 2011. And because of that, I did not have my children. And that just devastates you. [00:05:07] Speaker B: And that adds to. I don't want to use the term spiral, I guess, but that adds to the spiral. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Essentially the mental aspect of everything, where it can kind of tear you down mentally. Right. And then you don't feel you're good enough. And like, what did I do? What I. What am I going to do? You know, this isn't what I want for my kids. I want better for my. [00:05:29] Speaker B: And that's not where you had envisioned your life to be? [00:05:32] Speaker A: Goodness, no. No. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:33] Speaker A: I mean, I was on earlier in my kids. I was on the pta. I was a room mother, you know, and, you know, everything progressed until I thought I had to handle it, until I realized I didn't. And then it was hard admitting the Help. And at the time, resources weren't available here to really reach out. And, hey, this is what I need. If I knew what I needed, whereas I was a single mom, I could have got my kids taken away, all of that. So the resources weren't here back when I needed the help to get the help. And so I just kind of did what I did. [00:06:14] Speaker B: And that was the time too, that it wasn't really talked about. You know, if you had the struggles, you know, like you had mentioned previously, what happened in the home, stayed in the home. It wasn't something you brought out publicly. It wasn't something that was brought to light. It was. You needed to figure a way to fix it and make it work. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:31] Speaker B: And sometimes that wasn't the option. [00:06:32] Speaker A: And there's a really big stigma about, well, you have some mental health issues. Maybe you're lazy, you're not motivated, you that you don't have. Whenever the verbiage would be to have that stereotype, right, People that needed the mental health care and it was easier to deal with other people's issues than to deal with mine. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:00] Speaker A: It was so easy to help somebody else out because I knew it. I knew what it felt like. So it was just natural to kind of help other people and try to. And not concentrate on my own issues and get that taken care of. And then, of course, the mental health evolved into an addiction issue with me and the act of addiction. And then, you know, you replay that in your head and it just, you know, goes one revolving cycle at a time. [00:07:23] Speaker B: I was gonna say one. One just vicious cycle. [00:07:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:25] Speaker B: That's horrible to try to get out of. [00:07:27] Speaker A: Right. Then I got clean and we, you know, it got good for a while, and then it's a path that kept on coming up because I had altercations with law enforcement. I had a criminal background by then, and then I had a spotty work history because I was in and out of jail and different things. So it does beat you down after a while. And it just. [00:07:49] Speaker B: How can it not? [00:07:51] Speaker A: So it's just a matter of just keeping energy of gratitude. Like, at the end of the day, there has to be something you're grateful for. And being. I think learning to forgive myself and working on that is the hardest part of it all. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:08] Speaker A: And it's a continual thing because, you know, you can only be told no. [00:08:12] Speaker B: And you get stuck in your own head and yet some horrible place to get out of it is terrible. [00:08:17] Speaker A: But yeah. And then, you know, so I have. I'm a grandma now. My oldest has a grandma. Yeah. So it's, it's a great chance now coming back and being part of my kids lives and stuff like that too. I never was never not a part of their lives, but I wanted better for them. [00:08:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:35] Speaker A: And I wasn't able to provide that given different situations and they're great kids. I mean. And. Yeah. So I'm a grandma, I'm a mom and you know, just going and trying to get everything squared away and it's, it's a lot of patience you have to have with it and a lot of mental positivity that you have to keep reminding. [00:08:58] Speaker B: There's a lot of forward steps, however, there's a lot of backward steps. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Correct. [00:09:02] Speaker B: You know, which makes the journey very difficult. [00:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Because once you, you do good, but then you can't get a job or you can't get. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Because your past comes back to bite you again. [00:09:13] Speaker A: You know, then you revert to, you know, old habits and old playmates and play things and it doesn't end well. [00:09:21] Speaker B: And that's. And because it's all too easy to fall back into that because it's comfortable. I was going to use the term comfort zone. Absolutely. [00:09:29] Speaker A: It's comfort and it's easy. [00:09:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:31] Speaker A: You know, honestly. And you just don't. I think taking accountability and learning more about myself during, during this journey, for me, knowing what I need, being accountable and being honest with things. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Is a huge step and a major step. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:09:53] Speaker A: So. [00:09:55] Speaker B: So you are currently unhoused and couch hopping? Essentially. [00:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Can you describe what couch up. I guess or couch hopping has been like for you, what it feels like. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Day to day, unsettled. You just don't know what different places that you might be, have to stay at are not necessarily the most healthy or safe. But you do because that's where you. [00:10:23] Speaker B: Can, that's the option. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Right. And sometimes you don't want to go into a shelter or go into a place because you might run into your. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Old circle again and fall back into old habits. Absolutely. [00:10:37] Speaker A: It's a lot of mind over matter and to keep the positivity and just taking a breath and learning just to be okay with not being okay sometimes. And I say this, trusting your gut, like I think it's a huge part. Yeah. Like if it just doesn't feel right, don't do it. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:01] Speaker A: Like it's not at the end of the day. And I, I've been lucky this time around with my homelessness that I have a vehicle. So I have been blessed more than most that I could just go sit in my car. [00:11:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:14] Speaker A: You know, I can depend more on me this time around. [00:11:18] Speaker B: That makes a big difference. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Right. Than trying to trust somebody and put your trust into somebody else. And then the people you do want to trust, you don't want to burden them with your issues. [00:11:28] Speaker B: Right? [00:11:29] Speaker A: Right. So there's that fine line. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Burden them with the issues or overstay the welcome or which. So then how do you decide then at that point where you're going to sleep at night or who you're going to ask? [00:11:45] Speaker A: I try to rotate it a little bit. I don't want to say too much at one person's house or that, you know, like you said, don't want to overstay your welcome. You don't want to get comfortable. I don't want to get comfortable. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Personally. [00:12:02] Speaker B: And you're living by, you know, Amanda and I had talked about this, you know, on the last one. You're living then by somebody else's rules. You know, you try to be as helpful as possible and try to be, but it's still. [00:12:16] Speaker A: It's not yours. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:17] Speaker A: You can't. You don't really have a say. [00:12:19] Speaker B: So you never get that full comfort level because it's not yours. And you're always on edge, trying not to screw up or, you know, risk doing something, I don't know, to piss somebody off. And, you know, they tell you, okay, now you got to go, right. [00:12:34] Speaker A: They might get in a mood. They might be going through their own issues. And you can walk into a shit store or you can walk into a rainbow. You don't know from day to day what you're going to get. So, like I said, I'm lucky than most and I have a vehicle. I can just, you know. But it does. It takes a toll on you because you don't want to be sitting out in your vehicle. Right. Who has money for gas? When I can't get a job, so it's like I kind of babysit or, you know, I, you know, I work little things because it's hard for me to get a job, too, because of my background, my health issues. And they're in the fact that the housing then comes. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:13:10] Speaker A: You know, I had an eviction on my record in the last five years because I went to jail. And they look at that and they're like. [00:13:17] Speaker B: And unfortunately, a lot of people instantly, if they see that, and it's like, nope, that's it. [00:13:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:22] Speaker B: There are a few landlords out there that are willing to work with that. And look beyond that and try to give. Give that second chance, you know, but that's few and far between is. [00:13:33] Speaker A: And then you also run in, like I can get assistance. But then I only qualified for certain criteria. Right. And the apartments that were open that would really would be willing to rent for me didn't have that criteria available at that time. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Naturally. [00:13:47] Speaker A: And it's just, It's. Yeah, it's. It's a crazy. It's a crazy thing, you know, but. [00:13:53] Speaker B: What a racket to get caught up in. A lot of people think that if someone has a roof over their head that they're okay. What would you want people to understand about why couch hopping isn't the same as having a home? [00:14:05] Speaker A: It's not yours. You can't call it a home. You can't. Some of the places I've been, I don't want my kids to. I can't have my grandchild over, you know, I keep my stuff in my car so it won't go missing or I don't sleep very well because you don't know. So it's not. It's more of a mental thing. It's more of, like you said, on edge type thing because you don't know. Or you might have to, you know, sleep on a love seat and. Or a floor or, you know, you don't. You. Some things, you know. But for the most part, I've been blessed this time around. I got out of jail. I've been out of jail now for about a year and a half and I went and I got treatment and. But then. [00:14:50] Speaker B: Congratulations. That's huge. [00:14:52] Speaker A: Yep. But then the housing after that. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Right. Because of everything prior to that, there's no. Yeah, it just culminates and it makes it a big mess. [00:15:00] Speaker A: And waiting lists and funding and waiting lists are insane. Yes. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Have you ever stayed somewhere where you didn't feel safe but you didn't have any other option? [00:15:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Not a pleasant experience. [00:15:16] Speaker B: No. I don't imagine you get a whole lot of sleep or a whole lot of relaxation of any sort at that point. [00:15:25] Speaker A: No, not all physically, mentally. It's draining. And then that factors into the mental health issues and start that the whole vicious cycle again. Yeah. [00:15:36] Speaker B: How has this affected other parts of your life? Like, I know, you know, I mentioned, you know, like looking for a job, your past and stuff comes back to kind of bites you, you know, like keeping a job, mental health relationships. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Well, I have skills. I'm. I have a college degree. I am certified in a lot of different healthcare certification programs and Stuff. But because of my background, I can't get that job. So the financial stability, the. Just the stability all around, the housing stability that you can go home and just relax or financially you can provide for, you know, something other than day by day scraping for gas money. [00:16:18] Speaker B: I was just gonna say that. Where am I getting gas money today? Or, you know, if you have to spend time in your car or even. [00:16:24] Speaker A: The food factor, you don't have a home to put a refrigerator, you know, for the food. So it's actually more expensive to eat or to be day by day. It's that also. [00:16:33] Speaker B: And convenience is expensive. Yes, it really is. What's the hardest part of living this way that people don't see? [00:16:45] Speaker A: The mental, I think the emotional and the mental. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Because I told it takes. [00:16:52] Speaker A: Because I've been homeless before. It's hard after a time to build something up because you're in your back of your head, you're like, okay, I don't wanna lose it, but something might come up or I'm gonna lose. So you don't want to be. Personally, in the past, I have not wanted to really settle into a place because I always have. That what it. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Right. But it's hard not to. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Right. So it's hard to like really get comfortable and really feel settled in a place if you're not financially stable because of a job or, you know, you. You just. I've had experiences in your life where it hasn't been stable and you just always have that fear of. What is it that saying of the other foot falling or the other. What is that saying? Yeah, right. The other shoe to fall or something. Yep. You just kind of wait for that other shoe to fall, even though it could be a perfectly good situation. [00:17:49] Speaker B: But because of your experience, because of the experience, because of the past, everything you've been through, that's always weighing on the back of your mind that it could happen again. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Ouch. What does it feel like to constantly move from place to place? [00:18:08] Speaker A: Discouraging. I mean, it's. I've run into a lot of great people. I have. Have a whole different attitude about meeting people and not judging people. I absolutely. Just because, you know, you look a certain way, you talk a certain way doesn't mean that's a stereotype of man. [00:18:28] Speaker B: I wish everybody would share that. [00:18:30] Speaker A: You know, it's great. I think I have a better. Because of my experiences, have a healthier knowledge of mental health issues and how that can play into a part of the cycle and kind of am more not confident. But this is who I am, this is what I need. This is things that I come against or you know, just have more of an open minded attitude towards certain things. [00:19:00] Speaker B: And understanding at that point too that everybody is fighting some sort of battle. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:19:06] Speaker B: You know, and you had mentioned earlier, you know, you may not on the outside, you may not show that, you may perfectly put together, everything is all Jim dandy and inside it's, you know, complete chaos. [00:19:19] Speaker A: Right, right, right. Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker B: And so we never know what somebody's going through. [00:19:23] Speaker A: And it's this, I mean, at some points it's the shame and the guilt that, you know, you have of not being more productive or meeting expectations of things too. So there, there is that. And like you said earlier, the in your own head you could be your own worst enemy. You know, and some days it's just great for me to get up and go and do something productive. Right. Because you know, you can only do so much. [00:19:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:51] Speaker A: And then you just have to take a breath and be like, listen, I've done all I can for today, tomorrow's another day. [00:19:57] Speaker B: And that's. And you know, and a lot of people need to realize too, you know, it's, it's not, you can only do so much. [00:20:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:03] Speaker B: You know, it's not like a factory job. It's not like, you know, geez, you can push a little harder and do this and that. You can only do so much. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Right, right. And then there's resources out there and you know, sometimes you don't fit into the criteria to get those resources. Right. And the help that you really do need, you know, and that's sad. Like, oh yes, people need to get into treatment or some kind of counseling. The counseling list is severely lacking right. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Now that you're mental health resources are. [00:20:34] Speaker A: Right. And so it's just, it's people that want the help and then they want to try to get the help and there's waiting lists. So by the time you finally get there, something else might have experienced, they might have experienced that. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Right. Or by the time you get to that point, when you finally get to that breaking point. I guess a breaking point would be a sufficient word that you're reaching out and seeking that help. You know, you've hit that mental point that you realize, okay, I need help to do this, I can't do this on my own. And that in and of itself, that's strength, that's amazing to be able to do that. You get to that point, you reach out, you ask for help and they tell you, well, either it's going to be months down the road or, sorry, we don't have the resources to help you with that. Super discouraging at that point. To the point. And I've seen some of our peers that I've worked with and I've tried to help. I brought him to the hospital to get him checked in for rehab, for whatever else, and they turned away. And the couple that I've talked to, at that point, then they reached that point, they wanted the help. They get turned away completely discouraged and frustrated, and they're like, what's the point? [00:21:59] Speaker A: Right. Right. [00:22:01] Speaker B: You know, And. And. And then they fall right back into their old habits because what difference does it make? I can't get help. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Right. And that's. That does happen. That has happened to me. You know, I get out and you have all these great expectations and goals, and then, you know, you hit that brick wall. So you hit that brick wall, and then the. The emotional thing of, you know, you still have a family and you still. I still have my kids that I have to be. That I'm involved with, and it's a prideful. Who wants to say, you know, hey, my mom doesn't have her own place right now, you know. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:34] Speaker A: I have grown kids, you know, and I have a granddaughter, and it's discouraging that. And, you know, I take accountability for my actions and my choices, and I get that. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:22:47] Speaker A: And I know I haven't made the best choices at all, but I've made some good ones, 100%. My bad choices don't define who I am. [00:22:57] Speaker B: That's it. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's something I just. It took me a long time to be okay, to kind of get okay with. Right. And through the journey, know what I need, like, everybody's journey is different of how they get to where they need to get to. [00:23:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:14] Speaker A: And I've learned what works and what doesn't work for me. And, you know, I know when there's too much people around, I have to. I can only take so much. I, you know, completely issues. And I need to step away. [00:23:31] Speaker B: Or you need separation to kind of recoup and. And just breathe. [00:23:35] Speaker A: Okay. So I think a lot of people, if they need to kind of listen to themselves and put themselves first. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:42] Speaker A: And really stay in tune with their health and their mental health, for sure. Because that's a big, big factor. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Right. You know, and one of the things that I'm trying to really get out there with this whole podcast thing with the being homeless, with the mental health issues, it's A situation you're in, it doesn't define who you are. It is only a temporary thing, you know, but there's so many people that look at that and look at that situation and judge, unfortunately, and say, well, you know, and. And I've seen that firsthand in. In both of the locations when we were on Michigan ab, When we were on Erie ab. People can be cruel. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:23] Speaker B: You know, some of the things they say and their actions, and it's horrible. [00:24:30] Speaker A: It is. It. It really is. [00:24:32] Speaker B: I'm. I'm hoping to remove some of that stigma that that's attached to it, have people understand that it's not who you are. It's not. I don't know. It's just something, like I said, a circumstance. It is. [00:24:47] Speaker A: It is a circumstance. Shit happens, and it's how you get through it. And even if it happens again, it's a learning experience. It really is. So it didn't work this time with that. We'll try something else. If it didn't work. Well, let's try something. Don't give up. [00:25:00] Speaker B: I was just going to say the important thing is when you trip and fall, get back up. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Oh, I've had my days, this course. I've had two family members that pass away very close together that were my age. And it hit me. It hit me very, very hard while I was homeless. And you want to be able to help the other family members, but how can you really help them? You're not helping yourself. Right. And then the emotional toll, and it is like a lot of things happen, and it does. You have bad days. You have to be okay with having bad days because it's part of the process. [00:25:35] Speaker B: It absolutely is. [00:25:36] Speaker A: And it's how you process it and learning how to process it and cope with it and move on. And, you know, I've learned not to, I think, be more vocal to people. [00:25:50] Speaker B: And you have to be your own advocate. You have to have to be that voice. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Right. And just, you know, working on, continuing utilizing resources that are out there. [00:26:04] Speaker B: That's what they're there for. Absolutely. [00:26:05] Speaker A: Knowing about the resources and letting other people know about resources is a major key, too, because I think a lot of resources aren't utilized what they could be. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Right. And knowing. Letting people know that they're not doing this alone. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:21] Speaker B: You know, that's a huge step because oftentimes, you know, that's kind of getting back to. You get stuck in your head. You feel there's nobody that can relate to what I'm doing or what I'm going through. I'm in this by myself, and that's not the case. There's people out there that are willing to help. There's resources that will help. [00:26:39] Speaker A: I've been working with somebody in legal aid to help me work with some of the barriers on my background with the evictions and things like that. I work with Lakeshore Cap. I've worked with aging, disability. There are a lot of resources out there that. It does take time, though, and that's what the. You expect things to happen, and it's just. It's not. Not. It's not that easy. [00:27:01] Speaker B: Hurry up and wait. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And then if you're single and you don't have kids, then, you know, there's. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:07] Speaker A: You know. [00:27:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:27:08] Speaker A: You don't want your kids to be in this situation. You want them in something stable. You want. You want them to be better. [00:27:15] Speaker B: To be better. But, you know, I. I've often thought of that. You know, with my kids, I want better for them than what I've had. I don't want them to go through the same stuff that I've gone through. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:25] Speaker B: You know, and I've tried everything in my power to make it that they don't go through that. And. And, you know, a lot of stuff you can't avoid. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Right. But it is. I hate saying it is what it is, but it is. You deal with it, and more things come up, and then you deal with it, and, you know, you just keep on moving and you just keep on being grateful because things could be worse. [00:27:46] Speaker B: And that ties in beautifully with my next question, Actually. It says, even with all the instability, you're still pushing forward. What keeps you going? [00:28:02] Speaker A: I'm a grandma now, so it's a little different for me, personally. I don't want. I want my grandchild to be able to come and have fun at my house and be okay and run and fight, you know, and be okay with stuff that I wasn't necessarily able to do all the time with my kids. And that's a great incentive. My kids are a great incentive. I mean, the love that we all have, like, we fuss and fight and absolutely, you know, bicker and, you know, stuff like that. But at the end of the day, we love each other. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:36] Speaker A: And it's that love that gets me through, I think, because if I didn't have the support or just the love of my kids, just. I mean, you can just. And my granddaughter, you know, they just. They don't judge. And I have a nephew that I want, and he's Just always just so bubbly. And they love you and, you know, don't take that for granted. [00:29:01] Speaker B: No. And. And when they look at you, they don't. They don't look at you and see your past. Past. They don't see any missteps you've taken. They just see you and love you. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And that hug and that smile, that is. That's it. And I bribe him with candy every now and then. It doesn't hurt. [00:29:17] Speaker B: It's like, hey, do what you gotta do. If somebody listening today wanted to make a real difference, especially for young people who are couch hopping, what would you want them to know or to do? [00:29:31] Speaker A: This was a good question. I thought about this a lot. Definitely find somewhere where you can have a good mailing address, like if there's correspondence or if you need something, whether it be for school or work or jobs, to have a good mailing address or a PO box and a phone. [00:29:52] Speaker B: That some sort of method of stable communication. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Right. Definitely that. And to trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right, don't do it. I mean, even though you might feel a little pressured or obligated or trust your gut and go with your gut. [00:30:10] Speaker B: Don'T put yourself in a circumstance that you may regret later. [00:30:14] Speaker A: And definitely be around positive people, people that are motivating you and they have expectations of you that will help you go forward. [00:30:24] Speaker B: I was gonna say a lot of people don't realize that too. Who you surround yourself with makes a huge difference in where you're going. [00:30:30] Speaker A: Right. And it's not like you're judging anybody. It's just, you know, this is what I wanna do and this is where I wanna go. [00:30:38] Speaker B: You need people that are going to support you, give you that little push and, you know, back you with whatever you do. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Not ones that are going to drag you down. [00:30:48] Speaker A: Right, Right. And just be there just to talk to. Just have a really good support person that you can go to and just. And they'll tell you how it is. [00:30:57] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Definitely need one of those in your life. [00:30:59] Speaker B: You need someone to look at you and say, are you serious? Right. What are you doing? [00:31:02] Speaker A: Get a dealer. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:04] Speaker A: But you know, Eric is like, you did a good job. It's always, don't be too hard on yourself. And definitely have a support person you can go to or many and reach out. Don't be afraid to ask. And that's a big thing. People just kind of like, oh, they just kind of hang around and, you know, go with the flow. And sometimes it's not that hard to ask for a little more. You might, you know, in my case, I don't want to burden anybody or, you know, don't feel like you're a burden either, because that can have. Right. [00:31:40] Speaker B: You know, and kind of tying in with the, you know, ask for when you reach out. You know, and I had mentioned this, I think probably in every episode so far. You don't know what you don't know ask. You know, you may not know that this resource is available unless you ask. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Or you get in touch with the right person and say, oh, we've got this in place, or we have this or this. You'd be perfect. [00:32:06] Speaker A: So maybe things change, too. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:32:09] Speaker A: You know, like, different things, different programs change and different people, you know, so it's always good to just keep yourself out there and just, like you said, ask, and you don't know what you don't know, so. [00:32:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:21] Speaker A: Definitely. And if they say no, they say no. You know, if they say yes, great. Absolutely. [00:32:26] Speaker B: That's. I look at it that way, too. The worst they can say is no, you know. [00:32:30] Speaker A: Right. Right. [00:32:31] Speaker B: So is there anything else you'd like to tell anybody before we wrap this up? [00:32:44] Speaker A: You know, my faith has kind of gotten me through, too. Just, I believe. I was told he won't put you in anything. He won't get you through. And I just have to keep on remembering tomorrow's another day and just be thankful for what I do have. That is definitely a thing. Just you're even having a bad day, even when you're fighting with your kids, at least your kids are there to fight with. [00:33:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:09] Speaker A: You know. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Kathleen talks a lot about the attitude of gratitude. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:15] Speaker B: You know, there's always something to be grateful for. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And just don't judge. You know, you don't know what the other person's going through. They might have a smile on their face, but you don't know. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:24] Speaker A: You know, just to keep an open mind definitely is a key. And not to stereotype people. I think, you know, that's a big. That's a hard, hard thing to do because, you know, you. You people do, you know. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:40] Speaker A: You know, if you're overweight or you're, you know, home, you know, they just. They have that negative stereotype. But, you know, at the end of the day, everybody goes through their own journey. Everybody handles things their own way. So what might work for you might not work for them. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:55] Speaker A: So just be respectful of the other person's journey. [00:33:59] Speaker B: And legal. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:02] Speaker B: Beautiful. You've given us a real gift today by sharing a story, one that too often goes unheard. Thank you for your courage, your voice and your honesty. Couch humping isn't home. It's survival. It's resilience. It's a call for something better. Thanks for listening to Sheboygan stories on housed and unheard of. Remember, keep your heart open and pay it forward.