A Chapter Ends

[00:00:23] Speaker A: All right, welcome back to Sheboygan Stories on housing unheard. I'm your host, Scott labonte, and I'm sitting here again with my wife Kathleen. Today's episode is a little different. It's not just an interview. It's personal. We're not gonna. We're gonna share the story behind our decision to dissolve Cheboyganeri Pay it Forward, the nonprofit day center we started and poured our hearts into. [00:00:49] Speaker B: So I get the feeling from some of the Facebook comments, the majority of them are super supportive, but I feel like some people think this was just a last minute, rash decision, and it was anything but. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Not even close. Sleepless nights, lots of tears shed. [00:01:11] Speaker B: I've cried more in the last six months since we got notice on Erie Ave. Than I think I ever have in my entire life. Because I. I think I knew when we got that notice on Erie Ave. That everything that we fought so hard for, that everything that we poured our blood, sweat, and tears into was gone. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Right. I think that's why when I pulled that sign down off the building that. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Day, oh, God, it was devastating. [00:01:45] Speaker A: I think that's why I took it so hard. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it was absolutely devastating. [00:01:49] Speaker A: I think I knew at that point, but didn't want to admit that that was the beginning of the end. [00:01:54] Speaker B: But we knew from the start how difficult it was to find a space for us to do what we do. You know, Penny was great on Michigan Ave. Our first space. She gave us a chance, was super flexible with us on the month to month, you know, to see if it would work for all of us or not. And, I mean, we knew on day three, we needed a bigger space, and it took us six months. And I don't. That's the thing. I don't think the community realizes that then we were days away from closing our doors because there was nowhere for us to go. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Right. Had we not had that meeting with Larry Samit that day. [00:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And he gave us Nathan's contact info, had that not happened, we never would have progressed to where we were on Erie app because there was nowhere for us to go. Because while people are like, oh, I absolutely love what you do, they're like, go do it over there. I don't want you by me. [00:02:58] Speaker A: Right. We've run into that a lot. [00:03:01] Speaker B: I mean, and this time we've had multiple landlords or people reach out to us. But the spaces are either way too expensive or too small or way too small. The majority of them were way too small. The two that were big enough needed so much work and the rent was so high. And then you add the utilities and the cost of everything that we do. We're a small business. [00:03:36] Speaker A: That's not even feasible. [00:03:37] Speaker B: It's not feasible at all. And, you know, then there was another one that's way more than big enough, but it's outside of our area. And again, costs. When you look at the cost of the utilities on top of the rent for all of that, it's. It's not feasible for us. That. And it's too far away. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Right. We have an amazing community, and the money's always come through, but. That's a pretty tall ask, I was gonna say. [00:04:02] Speaker B: But at some point, when you're looking at between three and $4,000 a month or more for rent, and then you add all of the utilities on top of that, it's not doable. I mean, towards the end on Erie Ave. We were paying $3,000 a month the last five months with the expanded space. But we also had a donor that part of that rent was for. That part of that cost was covered from that donation. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Right. That was the only way we were able to expand in there was that donation allowed us to rent another couple rooms and expand our operations and continue to do what we've been doing. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Correct. But, yeah, I mean, and it's not been easy at all. It's been heartbreaking. I mean, we have. Oh, God. The shit that we have dealt with since March is. Is exhausting, to put it nicely. I mean, I started off, we said that we were not gonna go into somebody else's space. And Kate and I, you know, we wouldn't be where we are without our volunteer. Kate. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Right. We love Kate. [00:05:24] Speaker B: Kate and I would get together a couple times a week and go to the community cafe. We'd go over to the library. We go looking for our peers. And that is ex. It's. It's exhausting. It is trying to hunt them down and. And it was devastating and still is. Watching so many of our peers spiral. Right. I mean, it's like from the moment we gave notice on Eriav that we were being asked to vacate, that the building was condemned. All of that hard work. All of that hard work that we did to get to where we were and to get the relationships to where they were and the trust to where it was with our peers was literally gone. [00:06:14] Speaker A: With one announcement, very quickly, they disappeared and just poof. Mia. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. And we're seeing it this time. I mean, our lunch today was. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Was pretty sparse today. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very sparse. I Mean, last Sunday we served 69 people in less than 30 minutes. And this Sunday we were prepared to serve 70 people. Cause that's average for us. [00:06:46] Speaker A: They had brought in for 100. [00:06:47] Speaker B: She said, yeah, and we are lucky. Super lucky. If we saw 40, maybe, I think even that's pushing. I'd say more like 30. [00:06:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Cuz, yeah, they're just not there. [00:07:05] Speaker A: Right. They've this. And, and I get that, you know, and, and part of, I guess the, the struggle that we run into with this is, you know, we've heard from our peers from day one, while we were trying to build up their trust, while we were trying to build that connection and really get to know everybody, that somewhere along the line in their lives, everybody has turned their backs on them. [00:07:32] Speaker B: And now we're those people. [00:07:34] Speaker A: And we're those people now. And it kills me. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Right. You know, and I've had people ask, well, well, will Salvation army not let you be there? Will they? And I don't want any rumors going around about that at all. I will tell you right now, Salvation army has been amazing to us. [00:07:54] Speaker A: They're truly wonderful people. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Heather and Wiley have been fabulous to work with. I mean, they stepped up when nobody else did. [00:08:03] Speaker A: They've grown to be great friends. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And when nobody else stepped up, they stepped up and they were like, come in, we're gonna provide you this space. We're gonna work with you, we're gonna out. You know, I sat in meetings with Heather and Krista figuring it out, and our volunteers went through their volunteer application process. Even I did. And you did. You know, they came to us when we expressed concerns weeks ago when you posted about the hard time that we were having and the frustration that we were feeling. And, you know, they posted or they reached out and said, you know, that we could look at what it would look like to extend our hours there during the day. And at first I got super excited and I was like, yeah, you know, but we'd need a TV for in the afternoon, so. [00:08:58] Speaker A: And she said, no problem. [00:08:59] Speaker B: And she said, no problem. And then I sat there every day for a week after that, and I went, why? Why? Because I'm there six days a week between the downstairs and the Sunday lunches and our peers come in and people we don't know come in. You know, whether, whether they're new guests from another local shelter or whatever, they come in and like, you bring out the intake paperwork when you get three second after 40 people come through the door in five minutes and I go and ask them to Fill out the intake paperwork, you know, and I just explain. It's real simple and just basic information. We don't share it with anybody. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Just to get to know you. [00:09:58] Speaker B: It's for our records, and so I can figure out the best way to help you. And you turn around and I'm not three feet away, and they're gone, and the paperwork's still sitting on the table. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Right. When we closed our doors on Erie Ave. We lost that connection that we had with the piers. For anybody that ever stopped in there that ever donated or has even just been through the tour, we had that little counter space where we had all of the snack items and stuff like that where we used to sit, and there was a bunch of stools on the outside of the counter area. And we've had some truly, truly amazing conversations at that company. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Hours and hours in a day, we would sit there with our peers and talk and just hang out and laugh and tell our stories and, you know, get to know our peers so much better. And when we close that door, that connection just stopped. And that falls in line perfectly with the, you know, not knowing half of our peers right now. The whole dynamics of everything changed. And without having that connection, without having the consistency that we had with our peers, it really. Our mission somehow got lost in the mix. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Like, right now at the center, we're providing breakfast. A quick breakfast. [00:11:26] Speaker A: We're a pit stop. [00:11:27] Speaker B: And some snack bags. We're a pit stop. And our peers, several of our peers have explained to me, I had a peer come up one day and say, Ms. Kathleen, I need to talk to you. Can we have a conversation? And I said, absolutely. Let's go sit down. And they were like, no, let's go outside off the property where there's no cameras. And I was like, oh, is this a bad conversation? And I went outside and we had the conversation. And I was like, why couldn't you talk to me in there? That was. This was a very easy thing. And they said, because they have cameras. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Something that we wouldn't, I guess, normally think of, right? [00:12:09] Speaker B: Well, I guess I didn't think of it like that because I was like, we had cameras all over the place. Like, they were everywhere. And everybody knew that. I'm like, wait, cameras. We could see and hear everything. And they know that because I'd be at home sometimes and say something over the camera when I could hear something going on, like, hey, I can hear you. [00:12:29] Speaker A: Right? Or I see what you just did there. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw that. But they said the Difference is those were our cameras that they knew only we were looking at. And now the cameras that are there belong to another organization, other people. And while they understand that they need them and they respect that we lost that safety net for them because of that, they do not feel safe to have those conversations like we had on Erie. [00:13:03] Speaker A: And we assured them, too, you know. [00:13:05] Speaker B: That nobody from Salvation army is listening to us talk. [00:13:09] Speaker A: They have better things to do than sit and watch the cameras and listen to conversations while we're there. [00:13:12] Speaker B: They don't. That's not a thing. [00:13:13] Speaker A: That's the least of their concerns. But I get it, you know, I get it. It's a private moment. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And I had talked to Heather about that, and she gets it, too. Totally gets it. You know, it's nothing against anybody. It's what they need to feel safe. [00:13:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:30] Speaker B: And it's not there. And, you know, like, on Eriev, we had the art center, so they could build puzzles. They could do puzzle books, they could color, they could play games, they could do all kinds of. So we. We don't have any of that. No, we can't bring all the shit with us. We brought enough. [00:13:47] Speaker A: We got. [00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we brought enough. But, you know, we can't. They use that room for other things that they have going on when we're not there. So it's not like it's just ours. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Right. Every other Friday, we have to pull everything out so they can. [00:14:02] Speaker B: Well, because there's youth group that meets there. [00:14:05] Speaker A: So we have to pack everything up, tuck it away, get it out, you know, out of sight, out of mind type thing. And Which I get. It's their space. Um, but that's a lot of extra work, too. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Right. But it just. It's, you know, like I said, started to say before, said, you know, like a week after she had offered the extended hours. And I was sitting there, and I was like, why? And I say that because literally we have had up to 41 people in a day. Some days it's 15 people. More often than not, it averages in the 30s. But they will come through that door between 8:30 and 8:40, and by 9:20, it is crickets. [00:14:53] Speaker A: There's one or two people left. [00:14:54] Speaker B: There's one or two people. That's it. They come in, they eat, they are in and they are out so fast. Like, there's. There's not even an opportunity for the conversations because one of us is counting how many people come in and out and answering. [00:15:10] Speaker A: Because they suck at signing in. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. And answering Basic questions and reminding 12 times over. Please sign in. Please sign in. You don't have to put your name. You can put an X there. I don't care. I don't care, people. [00:15:23] Speaker A: Mickey Mouse. [00:15:24] Speaker B: I'm not tracking the individuals. I'm just tracking the number of people, because that's very important for donors and for our own information. But then our other volunteers, because, I mean, it takes at least three of us to get through that 45 minutes in the morning, because there's one of us up front and the other two, even though we think we're fully prepared the day before for the next morning was snack bags. We're not. So you're making sandwiches, filling snack bags. I mean, it's just boom, boom, boom, and then it's gone. And for the next hour and a. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Half, you're sitting there by yourself going, doo de doo. [00:16:02] Speaker B: We're preparing snack bags for the next morning, and we're talking and we're cleaning, and we're like, where? Where the hell are they? [00:16:09] Speaker A: And, you know, too with that. And I don't mean any disrespect to anybody that walked through our doors, but there were one or two that would come up and actually say, good morning, or how are you? The slightest interactions. Everybody else was, you know, again, not to be rude, but what can I get? I'm gonna grab what I can get, what I need to, you know, for whatever, fill my pockets and leave. [00:16:36] Speaker B: I had a few peers who have been with us for quite a while. The day I made the announcement, I mean, I was a mess. I was sobbing. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:16:46] Speaker B: I was sobbing. I had a few who were. Who were very emotional, but it struck me how many had no response. And it's not even. It shows to me how far into that survival mode that they are. [00:17:14] Speaker A: So much disconnect. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So much disconnect that they don't even have a reaction to it. And then I had the few, because, you know, there's always a few that fired off with the, oh, what are you giving us this time? When's the free stuff coming out? [00:17:31] Speaker A: Right. Talk about a slap in the face. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, you have some in each category every time, no matter what. It's human nature. [00:17:42] Speaker A: And you get that in any walk of life. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:44] Speaker A: You know, we're not trying to signal. Single anybody out. We're not trying to point fingers by any means. And I get it. The survival mode kicks in, and that's exactly where they are, you know, but seriously. [00:17:57] Speaker B: But we're not. But we're not in a place to even attempt to rebuild those things. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Because we don't have the space to do it. I mean, we have run into, like I said, with the spaces, one thing after another. You know, it's just this space isn't there. Either they need $400,000 to buy it and $50,000 or $100,000 worth of work. It's just not feasible for us to do that. You know, it's also a slap in the face when you see posts put out by City of Sheboygan City Hall. And let me tell you, burned my ass to see posts out there on Facebook talking about where the unhoused can get housing and whatever resources, and we're not even on there. I mean, we were on the link, if you took the time to click on the link, but there was six main providers out there and we weren't even on there. And I'm like, what the fuck are we? We've been killing ourselves. [00:19:11] Speaker A: And those of you that had commented, you know, what about Pay it Forward? Thank you. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Yes, thank you very much. [00:19:17] Speaker A: We do appreciate that. That was actually the turning point for me. We had been talking about it for quite a. Well, for a while. [00:19:25] Speaker B: I had been talking about it since your yav. [00:19:28] Speaker A: I wasn't ready to give it up yet. I was. I was still holding on and we held out as long as we could in hopes of the Catholic charity building coming through. When that fell through was a really. It hit hard. You know, we had everything set on that. And when that fell through, it really. The bottom fell out. And I was struggling at that point. [00:19:51] Speaker B: I'll never forget the day you said that we put all of our eggs in one basket. You're like, what did we do? We put all of our eggs in one basket. What are we gonna do? I'm like, we've been looking at all these other places and there was only one basket, right? There was only one basket, right? [00:20:08] Speaker A: And I realized that. And then I made a last ditch effort the other day. I reached out to another building, in fact, where the LTC was leaving right there on Niagara av. And I reached out because a few people had said, hey, you know, LTC is pulling all this stuff out. They're going back to campus or whatever they're doing with it. So I had emailed, I put the post out. Hey, I need, I need contact info for whoever owns this building. And man, you guys came through. You know, I had, I had a message within seconds going, hey, this is the guy who owns it here's. His phone number. Here's his email address. I reached out to him instantly, and, you know, I was told, well, he doesn't respond well. You know, be persistent. Within minutes, minutes, I had a response. Least until fall of 26. That, I think, was the complete turning point for me. You know, I was grasping at straws. I was digging to see there had to be something else out there. There had to be somewhere for us to go. And when that one fell through, too, I think then I realized it was time to go. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Well, and I think that people think that. Oh, I'm trying to figure out how to word this. Okay, I'll do it this way. [00:21:29] Speaker A: I was gonna say it's real or awful. [00:21:30] Speaker B: If erie have was still open, if that was never condemned, we would be buzzing along with our daily life at the center. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Happy as can be. [00:21:40] Speaker B: Happy as can be. And everything would be amazing. [00:21:43] Speaker A: We would have been growing, and we. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Would have been very well. Yeah, yeah. We would have had a laundry room by now. We. I mean, we would have still been going. I need to make that very clear. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Yes, but. [00:21:55] Speaker B: But for people who aren't in this all of the time, and we've done it. I mean, we were at the point when we opened our center, when we finally looked for a space. I told you then, either we have to find a space that I can do this from on a regular basis and stop chasing them around, or I am done. Because it is emotionally exhausting. [00:22:20] Speaker A: And physically, the amount of time we. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Put in chasing people around, it's absolutely draining. And I think it's so draining because we know we can't provide what they need. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Without that space. I mean, that's our whole mission, is to provide them a safe space. [00:22:41] Speaker A: Our mission, when we started this in our chippewa area, pay it forward bylaws that we had to create before we could even begin. The dream of this organization was to provide charitable and humanitarian services to. For the residents of sheboygan county, including, but not limited to, providing a safe space for those experiencing homelessness. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Without that space, we are not fulfilling our mission. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Our mission is not coming through. And without that, there's so many other aspects to that that we cannot do because of not having our space. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Right. You know, and we've been reached out to. And I'm just going to say that we've been reached out to by a few people, like, will you transfer your non profit? Well, that's not how that works. For starters, you can't transfer if you're not doing what we're doing. And if you. You haven't been around working it with us. No, I'm not transferring the name of all the hard work that we have done to you to do something different. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:48] Speaker B: I'm not. I'm not. [00:23:50] Speaker A: We grew this from nothing. I'm not. I can't. I couldn't sit back to watch somebody else either run it into the ground or change it to something that's not. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Even in similar missions is not the same mission. So let's. Let's be real. The federal government is, like, super finicky about that. And if somebody took it over and wasn't doing what was stated on the paperwork or whatever, I'm pretty sure everything that. That can come back to bite us in the ass. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:17] Speaker B: And I'm not doing it. [00:24:18] Speaker A: No. Had it been somebody that volunteered with us and had been with us for a long time and wanted to continue what we had been doing, I would have gladly stepped down from executive director and said, here, you're the new executive director. It is your baby now. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Only with the stipulation that you continue to do exactly what we were doing. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Right. You know, and if we. If Catholic Charities had come through none. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Of this, it wouldn't be anything. [00:24:45] Speaker B: Or another space that was feasible in the area where we need to be. This wouldn't be an issue. We'd be doing it. [00:24:54] Speaker A: Speaking of spaces, and this is where it gets the real and raw part of this. This whole podcast, through all of this, we've been putting out there since they let us know in March. [00:25:06] Speaker B: Yep. [00:25:07] Speaker A: When. When they told us that they were shutting our building. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah. When we got the notice to vacate. [00:25:11] Speaker A: March 13th or 14th, whatever it was, told us we had to be out by April 15th. So that day we put posts out on Facebook and we reached out again. We're not from here. We don't know a whole lot of people. We don't have the connections that probably most of you have. So our circle is limited. But we put feelers out there. We put posts out there, and there's. In the original Facebook group that. [00:25:37] Speaker B: The Pay it Forward group, there's almost 7,000 members. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Right. Somebody out there, you know, I would have thought would have had connections. Since March, we've been putting out there that we needed a space. And I get. I honestly, I get that it's hard given the parameters of where we need to be. I understand that. But nowhere in this six months has anybody. And not to sound rude, not to sound heartless, not a church, not anybody who has mission halls, Rectory buildings, whatever you may want to call it, has stepped up and said, hey, we have a space for you. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Well, how about the city with all these buildings that are uninhabitable, supposedly. Whatever. Why not say, hey, if we give you this for a dollar, this is what it needs. [00:26:23] Speaker A: We would have crowdfunded. We would have. We would have did whatever we had to do to bring that space up. All right. Sorry about that. We had a little blip in the batteries died continuing on on the space. You know, we would have gladly did what we had to do to do the renovations, do whatever we had if we had that space available. And nothing in six months. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Right. You know, and. And like I said, we've been through this before. It took us. We started looking for a space originally in October. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:02] Speaker B: Of 2022. Finally found a space in February, late January, February of 2023. And then we opened on March 8th. And literally by March 12th, we were looking for a bigger space because we were like, damn, we need a bigger boat. So. And you know, that took us. It was early September. Like, our doors. We were literally. No, it had to be late August because we were only a few days away from having to close the doors. Having to close the doors. You know, it's not. It's such a process. [00:27:50] Speaker A: It is. And you know, I know. Please don't get me wrong, the churches, the organizations that we work with, we cannot thank you enough for the help that you've given us in other ways, the donations, the supporting us. You know, please don't take that the wrong way. It's just frustrating. The amount of brick walls we've faced, the barriers that we run into when we're trying to do this. And we know it's a much needed cause in this city, and we know that, and we know it mattered. We know it made a difference. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Right. But even this summer, since closing on Erie Ave. Erie Ave. I very rarely ever had to go shopping for anything for the center. [00:28:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:41] Speaker B: We would put out wish lists and it would be there. I mean, we'd be flooded with stuff. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Sometimes going, okay, wait on this. We don't need this anymore. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Right. I mean, I remember we don't post for milk because I put out a post one day, urgent. We needed milk. I didn't realize how low we were because I would normally go to the food bank to get it. And we literally received 40 plus gallons of milk in less than two hours. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Thank you, by the way. [00:29:09] Speaker B: So, yes, yes, we used it all, but I don't post for stuff like that. But even like the wish list Wednesdays that I put out now, and we keep a limited amount of stuff there because of space. So sometimes it's twice a week or whatever that I'm bringing stuff into the center with me. But we have literally spent over $1,000 a month, every month on basic supplies for the center like bread and whatever. I mean, we have always had plenty of peanut butter and jelly. Thank you. But just the most basic things that are on our wish list. [00:29:51] Speaker A: Fruit snacks, snack bars. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, this summer, Jess, our volunteer, Jess and Mary, love them. Thank you for what they do. Because Jess had made. Has made more lunches this summer because we had a lack of people signing up to provide them. So then I put out a post, you know, that they could donate money and that our volunteer would. Our volunteers would make them or I would, you know, so thank. I'm super grateful to the ones who, who were able to donate money for that because it has all been used to provide the Sunday lunches, you know, and I don't think people realize how expensive that is or how particular you have to be to feed 70 people because let me tell you, I had to laugh. The Sheboygan Press took information from our Facebook posts. And thank you, by the way, for at least reporting it accurately. Yeah, we appreciate it when you quoted. We super appreciate that. But I noticed when the article started, it says days after we did a brat fry fundraiser. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I caught that too. [00:31:03] Speaker B: We notified that we were closing our doors. Well, let me tell you, that Friday, that brat fry, it is the one and only brat fry I will ever do in my life. It was a 10 hour day for us. Good community support. There was a decent turnout. [00:31:22] Speaker A: And Mike, thank you for everything you've done. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yes, it was a decent turnout. And Pam and Mary and Apple around the bakery table. Kristen and Lori were there helping in the Bra Hut, selling and whatever. And we had the other couple show up and he grilled for two hours and she was in the Brat Hut. And the ones who signed up for bakery showed up and dropped off our bakery table, did the best. [00:31:49] Speaker A: That was huge. [00:31:50] Speaker B: But there were several others that signed up to help and never even showed up. At the end of the day, it was Scott and myself and Mike and Lexi and one of our peers to. [00:32:02] Speaker A: Do all the cleaning. [00:32:04] Speaker B: And we did all of that. And I came home and my accountant brain went to work because yes, I have an accounting degree, I have a business degree. And I went to work figuring out what we had spent for like the chips and the soda and the bottled water and whatnot. [00:32:21] Speaker A: Condiments prior to everything else. [00:32:23] Speaker B: Yep. And the condiments. And then what we had to pay to Miesfeld's that day for all of the food that we cooked and the buns and the charcoal and whatever. And let me tell you, folks, we netted $609. [00:32:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker B: And. And it paid for lunch. [00:32:44] Speaker A: It paid for lunch on that Sunday. And we did go through. We went through like 40 pounds of burger and I believe 72 pounds of brats. [00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:51] Speaker A: I don't know if that's good, bad or otherwise. I've never done. [00:32:53] Speaker B: I don't know. I've never done one. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Am I willing to sign up to do another one? [00:32:57] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. [00:32:59] Speaker A: That was a lot of work for. And granted, yes, that was $600 more than we had. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Yep. [00:33:04] Speaker A: You know, and I appreciate that. And like Kathleen had said, the community support, the people that were there, I had some amazing conversations. We thank you for your support. We appreciate everything that everybody's done for us. But with the lack of available space, the lack of any kind of support or help from the city and the emotional and physical toll it's taken on us over the years, it's just, you. [00:33:35] Speaker B: Know, I don't think people from our community realize with being open every day all winter long, this was the first summer that we were going to be open seven days a week. But I don't think people realize that when Thanksgiving or Christmas rolls around, we gave that to our peers. [00:34:00] Speaker A: I spent that day from open to close at the center, Christmas and Thanksgiving. [00:34:04] Speaker B: While I was home alone with our little girl. [00:34:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:07] Speaker B: And, you know, and if our adult kids were able to come, we had Christmas at 9 o' clock at night or two days later or whatever it took to make that happen. You know, I don't, I don't think anybody knows unless they're our closest friends who have been wondering where the fuck we've been for three years. We don't, we don't have the freedom to do anything. [00:34:36] Speaker A: Well, we didn't technically prior to. Because of Madeline at home. She's, you know, very medically complex and very, I don't want to say prisoners of our own home, but essentially we are. We're prisoners of our own home because we can't take her anywhere this night. So we didn't have a life to begin with. And then you add this on top of this, you know, on top of everything that. The multiple trips to children's every month. [00:35:02] Speaker B: But even our time together because you know, we've been together. We just had our 18th anniversary in August. [00:35:07] Speaker A: I know, right? She put up with me for 18 years. [00:35:09] Speaker B: We've been together almost 20 years. You know, some people may be fine with that at that point in the game, but I still like my husband. I really like him. I enjoy spending time together. Like we used to sit at the table and play Scrabble and just. Or go on the bike when we had respite or camping. We don't have any of that. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Can you believe that after all this time, all of the weird adventures that I've taken her on, dragging her into this pay it forward stuff, you know, because I had a. I did something that I may need her help with. She still likes me. That's pretty impressive. [00:35:50] Speaker B: I do. He irritates me, but I still like him. Yeah, but I don't. I don't think people realize all of, all of the other aspects. And the other thing that people do not realize behind the scenes stuff is like, I was up front and center. I averaged 65 hours a week during the winter. [00:36:16] Speaker A: I was pretty close to that by the time working my. [00:36:18] Speaker B: Between teaching and the center. [00:36:20] Speaker A: I'd leave school to come directly to the center and stay there. By the time I got done cleaning at night was 8 o' clock at night or so. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Right. But then people don't realize that there's a full time office job behind that in order to make that happen. [00:36:31] Speaker A: Right. And we still have to answer to the government still. We are a listed through the state of Wisconsin plus the IRS as being a 501C3. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:43] Speaker A: There's paperwork and stuff that has to go to that too. And on a very specific timeline. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Right. So people don't realize that. Like even our peers don't. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You don't. I wish if it was literally just sitting up front hanging out and having conversations. But that's not. That's not it. [00:37:03] Speaker A: We'd have the world by the ass if we could do that. [00:37:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:05] Speaker A: Greatest job ever. [00:37:06] Speaker B: That's not it. That's. Yeah, it's. There's so much more to it, you know, And I see, I see all of these people who see our posts on Facebook. [00:37:21] Speaker A: And I've tried to be very transparent. And when I put out that post, speaking of transparency and I apologize for kind of being all over the place on this one because it's just, there's so much of it. Trying to stay focused on any one thing is kind of difficult because there's, you Know so many different parts to this whole thing that got us to this point right here now, in fact to the point that I forgot what I was talking about. [00:37:48] Speaker B: So I'll go back to what I was gonna say. I see all of the support on the post and the. I understand and I see, see the ones who are concerned, you know, there's not going to be a Sunday lunch. There's not going to be a. And, and some of these individuals who are, who are people who have been involved in one way or another in different aspects with our, with our peer community over the years. But let me tell you, we wanted to do picnics in the park. That was the plan. [00:38:27] Speaker A: That would have been cool as hell. [00:38:28] Speaker B: When Erie Ave. Closed. And what was his name? Travis. [00:38:31] Speaker A: Travis. I can't remember his last name from this. From. [00:38:35] Speaker B: Was it Department Public park from dpw? I do believe he was super quick to email us and tell us, you know, you may need to look into, you need a special events permit in order to do that in the park, blah blah blah. [00:38:50] Speaker A: Because of this, that or the other thing. [00:38:51] Speaker B: At 4:14 on the Friday before our first. [00:38:55] Speaker A: Right before I went home on a Friday. Thanks. [00:38:58] Speaker B: And we responded because we didn't meet any of that criteria other than maybe a 10 minute overlap with the number of people because they come and go. [00:39:07] Speaker A: The max we could have had was 50 people. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Right. But Scott very graciously and professionally responded to him asking some questions. We've never heard a single word, not a peep. Never got a response. I asked, so tell me that you did that because you don't want to see our population in the park. [00:39:27] Speaker A: That's it. [00:39:28] Speaker B: Without telling me. [00:39:29] Speaker A: Right. You know, and I did that very tactfully knowing that, you know, I have to tread lightly because at that point, you know, we were still looking for a space, we were looking for whatever. And we had to go in front of the planning committee. We had to be. We basically had to kiss the city's ass in order to get we want. Because it's been tough enough trying to find a spot and finding a spot that they would allow us to be. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Right. And I will say the first two times, Michigan Aveniri Avenue, when we went to the plan committee. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Oh, they were incredible. [00:39:58] Speaker B: They were incredible. Other than the mayor was the only one who had a question about why would we want to be by a bar where a community member very graciously stepped up and said show me a spot in Sheboygan where you're not near a bar. [00:40:11] Speaker A: Very valid point. [00:40:12] Speaker B: You know, but, but he said it from the aspect that day of our peers would cause the problem by the bar. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Not even close. [00:40:21] Speaker B: And it was. We had massive problems by the bar. I will be the last person to deny that we had massive problems. I mean, but it was not our peers. [00:40:32] Speaker A: The bar people were horrible. [00:40:34] Speaker B: Yeah, there are some shitty ass people that hang out on Michigan Ave. Rude. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Just gen. We'd be, we'd be hanging around outside, you know, talking, just hanging out. This night we walking by going, what's those people again? You know, I'm like, piss off. Keep walking. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Right? [00:40:45] Speaker A: That's rude. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Or they'd fishbowl the window. [00:40:48] Speaker A: I always got a kick out of that. You know, the big windows in front of the, in front of the building there. And people would walk by and they'd put their hands up to the window and they're looking in like that. And I'd go running outside going, hey, why don't you come on in, say hi. This. Oh, no, no, no. I can't do my. Stop looking in the damn window. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, yeah. Michigan Ave was not, not a good place. Like a few people when looking this time they were like, oh, here's an address on Michigan Ave. I'm like, you could not pay me to go back on Michigan Ave. Not a chance. There are some mean ass people there. Nobody deserves that. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Squirrel moments. While I'm thinking about when I was talking, when I lost my train of thought there a little while ago, I was talking about the transparency. You know, I've tried to be, you know, I try to keep everybody posted or updated on Facebook by posting this and that. And like I said, I believe in 100% transparency. And I did from day one. I want everybody to know what we're going through. Every little win, every, you know, every step we're taking, everything we're celebrating. And when I put out that post about our struggles that day, we had words about that. Yeah, you didn't want me to put that out there and I get that. But at the same time I wanted to put it out there because 1, the 100% transparency, but the same. Sorry. God, I hate this. Not only celebrating our victories, but realizing we're human and we struggle too. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:42:31] Speaker A: And I needed people to see that we were struggling. [00:42:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And we've never hid that from our peers either. [00:42:37] Speaker A: No, no. We've always been very upfront with our peers and they've appreciated that. [00:42:41] Speaker B: Let me tell you, the biggest joke on Erie Ave. Was don't talk to Kathleen till she's done with her coffee. I mean, everybody knows that. [00:42:48] Speaker A: Welcome to my world. [00:42:49] Speaker B: If I walked up on the porch in the morning and they were all like, good morning. Good morning, Good morning. And I could say, good morning, but not yet. Not yet. There were other days, I'm like, it's good. [00:42:59] Speaker A: We're. [00:43:00] Speaker B: We're ready to roll. But some mornings, I was like, heaven help me, no. My child does not sleep. I'm exhausted. I was up trying to figure out. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Whatever husband's been the ass, you know? [00:43:10] Speaker B: Yeah, but. You know, but we never hide those things. Or there are days that. That I would go in. I just did it the other day. And I'm very upfront with our peers. I walked in and I was like, guys, I am in a fucking mood. And if you're offended by that language, too bad. Because if you're around me at all, it's how I talk. And I don't. It is what it is. But I didn't hesitate to tell them. I'm like, I am super frustrated with where things are at, with where our relationships are at, with the shit that we see going on, and we can't do anything about it, and there's nowhere for us to go. And I had just recently heard that the mayor told somebody that pay it forward is fine in the basement of Salvation army with their limited hours, and the warming center is fine at St. Luke's for the amount that they're. Ow. But you're both fine right where you are. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Don't need to change any of that. [00:44:15] Speaker B: So you know what? I was pissed. So I make sure to tell the peers, it is not you. It has nothing to do with you. I have things that I'm trying to process, and, I don't know, I'm struggling with them. So if I'm snippy or if I'm crabby, it's not you. I've apologized to our peers more times than I can count. When I'm exhausted and I find myself being a little snarky or whatever, and I'm like, sorry, sorry, that's not you. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:44:46] Speaker B: But makes me mad. It makes me mad to hear and know that our city leader feels that way. I mean, people keep asking, did you meet with the mayor? Did you meet? Yes, we met with the mayor. Took forever. He was invited to both of our centers multiple times. Like, I would always manage when we were both at the same public event to corner him where other people could hear. And he's like, I'm coming. Get me on the schedule to serve lunch. I'm Coming. He never walked through the door once. Never ever. He would not respond to emails. He would, whatever. So this last time, he finally. I don't know why, but he finally responded and we set up the time to go and meet with him in June. Yeah, I don't even remember May or June. Anyway, we met and met with him and I mean, talk about just seeming genuinely disinterested in what we were. He had some specific questions that we were able to answer. But then, like when I was talking about what we do and our relationships with our peers and when we see our biggest successes, like when the warming center is open 12 hours and we're open 12 hours between the two of us, all the successes that we make because all of those fears are not there. They know where they're going to sleep. They know where they're eating. They know where they're going to the bathroom. They. So, so, you know, that's when we make the most progress between the two places. And, and it was like, I don't know, I felt like I was competing with the, the, the doodling that was going on on his notepad, you know. [00:46:37] Speaker A: And that was one of those meetings. I, I didn't know, I guess what I expected to get out of that. I really didn't going into. I didn't. And I guess my expectations were met because we got nothing. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Right. And then to see the posts come out from the city of Sheboygan and we're not even on there. [00:46:57] Speaker A: He at one point looked at us and said, well, compared to other cities, you know, we seem to be doing pretty good. [00:47:01] Speaker B: Yeah, comparatively. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Compared to other cities, we're doing good. You know why we're doing good compared to other cities? Because of organizations like us that pulled 60 to 70 people off the streets every day, gave them something to eat, gave them a warm, safe space to be, gave them some work, habit change. [00:47:19] Speaker B: And the safety that they needed to. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Take that next step. That's why this city was doing good. [00:47:26] Speaker B: Yeah, well, so. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Well, let's see where it gets you now, buddy. [00:47:30] Speaker B: Right? I don't know, but it's not, it's. It's. [00:47:35] Speaker A: And I know it's not just him. I know it. And there's, And I know there's not just any. There's no easy fix to this. I get that. But by not supporting organizations that are trying to help remedy the situation, that's not going to fix it. [00:47:48] Speaker B: Well, I just think of it as if he. Or if the city. I'm not, I'm not going to single the mayor. [00:47:55] Speaker A: No, it's not fair to single him. [00:47:57] Speaker B: If. And we have some older persons who have been absolutely amazing to us. Absolutely. [00:48:02] Speaker A: The gentleman, the young man that came and met. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Ghazi has been fabulous. Joe. [00:48:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:10] Speaker B: Yeah, they've. They've been absolutely amazing. So you know it. But if they have to acknowledge us or if they do, or if they help us out in some way, then they're actually acknowledging that there is an issue and that there are individuals experiencing homelessness. [00:48:35] Speaker A: And the Midwest can't have a homeless problem for that. Right. [00:48:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Out of sight, out of mind. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Well, there's no place for them to go now, so they're not out of sight anymore. [00:48:46] Speaker B: You know, and I would love for somebody to step up and do the Sunday lunch because going into winter, there's, there's, there's nowhere for our peers to go. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:48:57] Speaker B: On Sunday. [00:48:58] Speaker A: We started doing it on Sunday because the community cafe has Monday through Saturday. [00:49:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:03] Speaker A: And there was nobody serving lunches on Sunday, so. [00:49:06] Speaker B: Well, and, and the library is not open. Nowhere's open. So we had our busiest day. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:49:12] Speaker B: Every Sunday. But Salvation army is not open on Sunday. I mean, we, we, we could have made something work just for the lunch, but not an all day thing. There's nowhere for them to go. So, I mean, if somebody's willing or able to do that, kudos to you. [00:49:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:49:34] Speaker B: Because it needs to be done and. [00:49:35] Speaker A: It can't be in the city park. They'll be sending you emails very quickly. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And there's permits involved and all and all kinds of stuff. Unless you can get a church to donate some space. [00:49:50] Speaker A: Good luck. [00:49:51] Speaker B: We couldn't, but I say, but, yeah, we didn't get that offered. So maybe somebody else can pull. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Maybe somebody has better connections than we do. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Make it happen. [00:50:00] Speaker A: You know, I don't want this all negativity. [00:50:04] Speaker B: You know, I would not trade a single thing that we have done after the. Throughout the last. It's been almost six years. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:16] Speaker B: December 13th will be six years. I would not change any of it. Well, I would, I would not close Erie Av. [00:50:25] Speaker A: Right. But the interactions, the struggles, the victories, that I wouldn't change a thing. [00:50:31] Speaker B: I mean, we are coming out of this knowing that we have touched thousands of lives and we have forever changed hundreds. [00:50:46] Speaker A: You told me the other night before we went to bed about one of our peers. [00:50:53] Speaker B: Ah, yeah. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Could you share that one? [00:50:56] Speaker B: One of our, One of our peers. I'm gonna cry. [00:51:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Came in the center the other day. [00:51:03] Speaker A: After he heard about his closing yeah. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And he's working and he's housed. And, you know, we met him, of course, when he was not. He was at the Wyoming center and. [00:51:16] Speaker A: Sleeping on the bench. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Sleeping outside. Struggling to find a job. And, you know, I would sit and talk with him through all of his frustrations. [00:51:28] Speaker A: Yeah, we've had some amazing conversations and. [00:51:30] Speaker B: His hopes, and, as you know, we would talk, and when he would get super frustrated, I would always remind him, okay, you're focusing on the really, really big picture, but we need to focus on what's right in front of you. The littlest thing that you can do first. And then this will come, and then this will come. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Don't even look at the next one till we get this one. Look. [00:51:53] Speaker B: Let's get this one. And, you know, and he got the job, and. [00:51:58] Speaker A: But he was still sleeping outside. [00:51:59] Speaker B: But he was still sleeping outside. And he said the other night, he. He went by his window. I think he went to shut his window, but he went by his window, and it started to rain outside, and he shut that window, and he stood there watching it rain, counting his blessings. [00:52:22] Speaker A: Yep. [00:52:23] Speaker B: And he wanted me to know. Sorry. That forever in the back of his head, when he's standing inside his own apartment watching it rain, that he hears me in the back of his head talking him through all of those hard times and those moments of wanting to give up and just to focus on that one little next step, just the tiniest thing. And that he is forever grateful for that, and he will forever be a part of our life. But he said, without us, without those conversations, he wouldn't be where he is. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:22] Speaker B: You know, it's those moments, and we literally have hundreds of those moments, whether it was from helping with furnishing stuff and stuff for apartments before we ever even tracked any of that kind of stuff, because there's so much that we didn't track any of it. Somebody would shoot us. Facebook message and, hey, I need this. [00:53:47] Speaker A: You got it? Yep, I'm on it. [00:53:48] Speaker B: We'd load it up and deliver it. And, you know, there's just. There's so many good things. There's so many bonds. [00:54:01] Speaker A: Unbelievable. [00:54:02] Speaker B: There. There are. There are peers that came to us as peers that are now family. They're family. [00:54:13] Speaker A: They will always be family. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Yeah, they're family. They're lifelong friends. They're family. And with or without pay it forward, we will always have that connection. We will always be in each other's lives. [00:54:25] Speaker A: They can't get rid of us that easy. [00:54:27] Speaker B: You know, there's. There's people from other organizations that I'm so grateful that we made those. [00:54:37] Speaker A: Made those connections. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Connections, you know, I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful for everything that we learned. I just. I just wish I didn't have to learn everything the fucking hard way, but, you know, I do. [00:54:55] Speaker A: You mean there's a different way to do things? [00:54:57] Speaker B: Not that I'm aware of. [00:54:58] Speaker A: Me either. I've been doing it the hard way my entire life, damn it. [00:55:01] Speaker B: Not that I'm aware of. [00:55:04] Speaker A: You know, so it's been truly amazing. Even with all of the struggles, all of the hardships, all of the downfalls and I guess, brick walls that we've hit, it has been an amazing journey. It really has. [00:55:21] Speaker B: It has. But honestly, if somebody came up to me today and said, I have a space for you. You can have it. I don't. [00:55:30] Speaker A: Emotionally, I don't know if I've got it in me. [00:55:32] Speaker B: I don't think I have it in me to do that again. [00:55:35] Speaker A: And part of that goes back to since we closed our doors in April, when we started to lose those connections, when we started to lose everybody with that, you know, watching everybody spiral. Sorry about that. The goose malif must have flew down the street or something, you know, and watching our peers spiral. And even if we had a spot at this point, it'd be like starting from day one. [00:56:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's ground zero. [00:56:04] Speaker A: And quite honestly, as much as I, you know, I've told everybody from day one, this is a labor of love. As much as I loved, truly loved, what we did, I don't think I've got that in me to start from day one again. [00:56:18] Speaker B: No, no. And, you know, and this far into it, I mean, we have a handful of volunteers who are absolutely amazing. [00:56:28] Speaker A: Oh. That have been with us. [00:56:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we have. We have a handful. I'm sorry, but anybody who runs a place like this understands you need a. Of a lot more than a handful. [00:56:39] Speaker A: Oh, you do. [00:56:41] Speaker B: You need a lot more than a handful. I mean, I'm gonna be 54 years old in a few weeks. Yeah, he's older than me. Don't let. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Only by a couple months. [00:56:52] Speaker B: But, I mean, and with. And with Madeline and. And her needs and, you know, I just. [00:57:02] Speaker A: It's. We don't have it. No, I can't go back to that. [00:57:06] Speaker B: No. You know, I have this dream that maybe I lose enough weight or something. I color my hair and nobody will know who I am again. [00:57:13] Speaker A: Good luck. You know, and that goes back to the, you know, the forever running Joke that we had, you know, when we first moved here, moved to a city that nobody knows who you are, you know, because all my life, for a good portion of my life in the up, I was in miscellaneous bands and teaching up there, so everybody knew who I was and couldn't walk into Walmart without a dozen people stopping to talk. [00:57:37] Speaker B: Yeah, well, don't let him fool you. He does that in Sheboygan now too. [00:57:40] Speaker A: I do too, you know, and so we laughed that, you know, move to a place where nobody knows us and we can't even walk through Walmart, we. Without people knowing who we are now, but for a good, good, good reason, you know, and I appreciate that. I appreciate, you know, if you, if you want to say stop, stop and say hi. I love to talk, you know, I don't know, I don't even know anymore. [00:58:06] Speaker B: I just, you know, if people take one thing away from all of this, through everything that maybe you've learned just by watching us or listening to us or whatever. Well, two things. First of all, the people that keep posting on our page that you get what you vote for, but I didn't vote for the mayor. I did not. I was always politically correct. And we don't discuss politics in our center. I don't discuss politics, but I will say stop posting that I didn't vote for him. Second of all, the most important thing to take away from it, be kind. [00:58:53] Speaker A: Right? [00:58:53] Speaker B: Just be kind. You know, if you're walking along and somebody's doing something, you see one of our peers sitting by the library and they've got their wagon and stuff, don't be judgy. Either smile and be nice or shut your mouth and keep walking. One or the other. [00:59:08] Speaker A: Right. You know, be nice or heaven forbid, ask, hey, do you need anything? [00:59:14] Speaker B: Wanna have a cup of coffee with me? [00:59:16] Speaker A: Sit down and talk. Nobody bites. [00:59:18] Speaker B: I promise you won't regret the conversation. I promise you that. Sure won't you absolutely won't. You know, we're super grateful for every person who has come into our lives, whether they're, they're donors or politicians or, or church people or, or anybody, whatever you may be. Peers. Right, whatever. I've, I've enjoyed our conversations. [00:59:50] Speaker A: I've always believed that people come into your life for one of two reasons. One, either you're going to do something to change their life. [00:59:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Or two, they're going to do something. [01:00:00] Speaker A: They'Re going to change yours. And everybody I've encountered has been for one of those two reasons. [01:00:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:00:09] Speaker A: And a lot of our peers have definitely changed ours. A lot of the people that we've met through doing this have changed ours. [01:00:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. [01:00:16] Speaker A: And we appreciate every one of you. You know, the support, carrying this mission, a little peace in your heart. I don't know. It's just tough. And when I put that final post out the other day. Sorry, I have to tell you, pushing that post button sucked hard. That was. Aside from writing that post, which is probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life, pushing that post button was hard. It felt like we were closing a huge chapter of our lives. [01:01:12] Speaker B: We are. [01:01:14] Speaker A: And it hurt a lot. And it does. [01:01:20] Speaker B: It does. It definitely does. [01:01:23] Speaker A: I sat there with that post. I had it all written up, all ready to go. I couldn't bring myself to push that button. [01:01:30] Speaker B: No. You know, I don't think people understand how. How you can be so ready to be done, but not. But it's so hard, right, to walk away. [01:01:52] Speaker A: It is. [01:01:53] Speaker B: You know, I always tell our peers, choose your hard. Everything's hard. Choose your hard. [01:01:59] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:00] Speaker B: And we are choosing our hard. [01:02:03] Speaker A: When it's hard. [01:02:04] Speaker B: Because for the first time in over six years, almost six years, we have to choose us. [01:02:12] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:13] Speaker B: But it doesn't mean that we don't love them. [01:02:15] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:18] Speaker B: And I don't want to hear no rumors that there's health problems in our house, because there is not. [01:02:22] Speaker A: No health problem. No marital problems. [01:02:25] Speaker B: There's none of that. Oh, yeah, that was the other thing. Oh, it's gonna cost you your marriage. No, we still like each other. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Well, most of. [01:02:33] Speaker B: I don't get to spend enough time with it. [01:02:35] Speaker A: No. [01:02:36] Speaker B: It's all just speculation. We're healthy. We're. We're kind of an emotional mess right now, but other than that, we're all. [01:02:43] Speaker A: Over the place with emotions lately. It's tough. Since all of this, I will say. [01:02:49] Speaker B: I am one of the privileged people in the aspect of. I have the most amazing therapist on speed dial. I have a guitar, and I need her. She's earning her money right now. [01:03:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Pick up my guitar when I get a chance. That's. That's my therapist. But through all of this, I guess, regardless, you know, like Kathleen said, be kind and pay it forward. [01:03:18] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:18] Speaker A: You know, don't forget what this is all about. The Facebook page, the original page that we started back in December of 2020, is going to continue. [01:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know if you'll see me on it for a little while. I need a. I need an exorcism from my phone. [01:03:38] Speaker A: She'll be MIA for a little while, but I'm gonna keep that, that group going because that, that, that was started. [01:03:46] Speaker B: And it's still serving the same purpose. [01:03:48] Speaker A: It is serving the same started. That was before all of the brick and mortar places that we were at. All of it. That, that, that was the whole premise of everything. That's what started this. And I believe that needs to stay, stay going because, you know, there is still the need for that and, and I still want people to connect and help others out and I want people to pay it forward that, you know, remember, that's what this is all about. It's also going to be. I am not shutting down the podcast. I want to keep that going. I believe that there are still voices that need to be heard. There are things that need to be said and people that need to be talked to and we need to try to relieve that stigma and try to educate as much as possible the struggles that our peers go through on a daily basis. [01:04:37] Speaker B: And not being business owners anymore after. Well, technically, I guess we're not business owners. [01:04:42] Speaker A: We're. I don't know, I don't know what you call it, non profit, but I. [01:04:44] Speaker B: Don'T know what you call it. But, but you don't have to watch what you say, right? [01:04:49] Speaker A: Well, I didn't either. Well, I do. [01:04:51] Speaker B: Well, you do to a point. [01:04:52] Speaker A: I got reprimanded so many times because of some of the shit that I wanted to put on. She's like, you can't put that out. And I'm like, I know. So I go back and I delete it all, going dim. It'll come back a little bit nicer. [01:05:03] Speaker B: And it's funny because I've never been like that either. [01:05:06] Speaker A: Right. [01:05:07] Speaker B: I've always just been. I just say it like, say it like it is. Like anybody who knows me, either you love me or you think I'm the rudest person on earth because. But I also, people, there's a difference between rudeness and honesty. And just because you don't like my honesty does not make me rude. [01:05:24] Speaker A: And it's funny because I always tell people, you know, that there's a difference between nice and kind. [01:05:32] Speaker B: Yes, there is. [01:05:33] Speaker A: I am always a kind person. [01:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:36] Speaker A: I am not always a nice person. [01:05:37] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:38] Speaker A: And I don't claim to be. [01:05:39] Speaker B: Well, because sometimes you just need to hear it like it is. [01:05:42] Speaker A: Right. So, you know, kind of going back, the podcast is still going to keep going. It's available on pretty much any major streaming platform. It's on Apple, it's on Spotify, it's on YouTube. You name it, it's out there. So that's gonna continue. And I'll keep posting that on there, too. When new episodes come out. They come out every two weeks on Sunday, in fact. So when we're done with this, I'll go and get it ready and I'll post it. And I just want people to continue to help each other. You know, that's why this started. [01:06:16] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:17] Speaker A: And we still need to look out for our neighbors. We need to look out for each other. Because in case I haven't noticed, if you haven't been paying attention to News. [01:06:23] Speaker B: Man, it's not getting better. [01:06:25] Speaker A: It's going hell in a hand basket. Quickly. Holy hell. The violence, the police interactions that we've had in the last two weeks between Meijer and Avis, and this unbelievable. We need to look out for each other. We need to, you know, stick up and make sure your neighbors are okay. Yeah, say hi to your neighbors. You know, peek over the fence, make sure they're okay. [01:06:49] Speaker B: You know, I want to leave everybody with a final thought from me. When I was doing my health and life coach certification, and I was also in therapy at that time, in trauma therapy, because we had almost lost Madeline. [01:07:13] Speaker A: That was a tough one. [01:07:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a very tough one. But my therapist asked me, do you come from a place of fear or do you come from a place of love? And I told her, absolutely from a place of love. Like, why? Why would you think otherwise? And she said, you think you're coming from a place of love, but truly you are coming from a place of fear. You are doing the things that you do because you are afraid of her not being here. She said, and you think that's love? She goes, here's the thing. And I said, well, can't you do both? Because I love her more than anything. And she's like, I get that. She said, but here's the thing. Either you come from a place of fear or you come from a place of love. You cannot do both. You cannot. You cannot do both. They do not coexist. So I had to do a lot of work on myself, and I need everybody to know that I have ever interacted with through all of this pay it forward stuff that I have 1000% genuinely come from a place of love. And I want all of you to second guess yourselves and really look at. Are you coming from a place of fear or are you coming from a place of love? Because I can guarantee you, if you've ever acted in a hasty or judgmental way about the way somebody else lives their life or the way our peers are living. You are living in a place of fear. [01:09:18] Speaker A: Right. [01:09:19] Speaker B: And you need to work on yourself to change that, because the more people in society genuinely come from a place of love, the better our society will be. [01:09:35] Speaker A: Definitely. Right. There's some thoughts to ponder now, isn't it? [01:09:43] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Kick that around a little while. Let that, let that thought fester for a little bit, See what you come up with. I like that. I don't think I've got a whole lot else. You know, we're still here. We're not going anywhere. You know, if you see us on the streets or whatever, don't, don't, you know, stop by and say, say hi, reach out. [01:10:08] Speaker B: You can pet my dogs. Because I'm sure I'll be walking them downtown looking for peers. [01:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll be. We'll be downtown. We'll still be hunting down our peers, I promise you. And we promise them that they can't get rid of us that easy. And so we have this week yet at Salvation army in the basement. Friday is going to be our last day there. Friday, 11 o' clock is it. And then Sunday the 14th will be our last Sunday lunch, our last parking lot lunch. And we've got heavy smoker barbecue coming in. [01:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:40] Speaker A: Kevin and Jen have been truly amazing throughout. [01:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, they have. Yeah, they've been awesome. [01:10:46] Speaker A: I'm thankful for that friendship as well. [01:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:48] Speaker A: Truly amazing people. That might be a rough day. Might not, but it might. I got a feeling it might. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:01] Speaker A: But as always, I guess, please feel free to share this episode, follow the podcast. You know, hit that follow button that we stay up to date on what's coming out. Keep this conversation going. Just because our organization stopped doesn't mean the conversation has to stop. As long as you're talking about it. That's making change. Remember that together we can create a ripple effect of kindness and change. Thanks for listening to Sheboygan stories on how it's an unheard of. And remember, keep your heart open and pay it forward.