Fighting Two Battles – Addiction and Homelessness

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Welcome back to Sheboygan. Stories unhoused and unheard. I'm your host, Scholarship Scott labonte. Today we're opening the door to one of the most difficult and most understood parts of life on the streets. Addiction. For many experiencing homelessness, the struggle with addiction isn't the cause of their situation. It's a symptom, a survival mechanism, or sometimes both. Addiction and homelessness are two battles that feed each other, trap each other, and make it even harder to find a way out. Our guest today has lived this reality and is brave enough to sit down with us and share what it's really like. Before we dive into today's conversation, we want to acknowledge that addiction is a complex, painful experience and no two journeys are the same. Some of the stories shared may be difficult to hear. If you or someone you know is struggling with substance abuse or addiction, help is available. You can call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration national helpline at 1-800-662-HELP. It's free, confidential and available 24. 7 locally, here in Sheboygan, there's organizations like Sheboygan County Health and Human Services, Behavioral Health, Samaritan's Hand Rogers, Behavioral Health, Lighthouse Recovery center, and several others. You are not alone, and healing is possible. Thank you for sitting down with us today and being willing to talk about something so heavy. Could you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about your story? [00:01:51] Speaker A: I'm Robert. I've been out in the streets for a little bit this year. I've been out of it a few times, but I'm finding it difficult to find work, mostly because I can't really find the time to go fill out the applications and find a job because I'm a little more focused on doing the most basic things, things in a day. And it will take up more energy or time in your day than it should just to be able to get up on your feet. But by the time I eat breakfast, I gotta go try to do my laundry, so I got clean clothes or get down to St. John so I can get something and maybe if I don't have anything else going on, like even enough gas just to get over here to get shower or something, you know, maybe by 3 o' clock in the afternoon I'm ready for an interview and fed, but now nobody else is at that point. Yeah, it's like, where, where am I gonna go at three in the afternoon that they're gonna take me seriously if I'm looking for work like that? So I don't know. You kind of go day to day just trying to eat and get fed and keep your stuff dry. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Right? [00:03:02] Speaker A: Not. Not offend people when you walk by. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Right. And all of that can be rather difficult if you hear a bunch of background noise. Part of this podcast, we do it live and on location. We are currently in the basement of the Salvation army building in Sheboygan here during our breakfast and stuff like that that we do. So there is a little bit of background noise. So if you hear that, I apologize. These mics do pick up quite a bit. I just kind of wanted to give you a heads up as to what all that background stuff is, so we're gonna jump right in. When did addiction first become part of your life? Was it before, during, or after you became unhoused? [00:03:44] Speaker A: Honestly, addiction's been part of my life since I was, like, 14 years old. I just always saw my buddies getting stoned, and it always seemed so fun. They were the happiest dudes I knew. So, you know, I figured, yeah, that's what I wanted to be and just didn't really realize all the ramifications behind that. And then when you turn 18, you're like, fuck it, I'll just ride the couch circuit. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Right? [00:04:12] Speaker A: You know, but then you get older, you get in trouble, you do some time in the joint or something, you come out and you're an adult, and people expect you to have skills, develop. Like, I'm 40 years old. I'll be 41 this month, next month. Sorry. But it's just. It's a struggle every day. I don't know. I'm sorry. [00:04:40] Speaker B: That's quite right. This is just real and raw. It is what it is. You know, I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me. I really do. I know this is a rather difficult conversation sometimes. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Thing is, is you just kind of get stuck in this lifestyle. It's not something you actually intentionally choose. But, you know, I've been out here. One of the attractions sometimes with drugs is it's dangerous out here. Shit gets stolen. Stuff you need gets stolen, you know, daily, especially on a hot day, you might roll over for your water bottle and it's gone. Somebody else felt they needed water more than you, and yours was what they needed. Right? So, you know, I mean, things like methamphetamine, when you're hungry, if you can't find food, but somebody's got some meth, at least, you know, if you've done it, you're like, well, I can. I know I'm still hungry, but at Least I don't have to feel it. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Because hunger is a pain and it sucks. [00:05:42] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:05:43] Speaker A: And you know, I've been in that. I've been intentionally trying to stay sober sometimes and doing a good job couple months until that one night when you are that hungry, that ass out or. [00:05:58] Speaker B: The, I don't want to say the right person or the wrong person, however you look at it, I guess comes along and says, hey, you know. [00:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, I tried to make so much positive out of my situation. I live in a truck and I know even that is beat up and whatever, rusty as it is, at least it's a mobile home, however cramped the living quarters are. [00:06:20] Speaker B: And it keeps you out of the elements. [00:06:21] Speaker A: And the thing is, is when you're out here, people look out for each other in a lot of ways as a community. And I always do my best, but sometimes it can be frustrating and overwhelming just trying to live out here and survive. Right, right. You know, and do what's right. Like, I see so many people on what I call the wall of shame. And I really hate to say it, but over at the bp, I love the wall of shame because they'll put you on blast. And I can honestly say, though, out of all the worst of the worst, I'm always thankful that I'm not a thief like that. Even at my worst, when I'm out there on a four day binge or when I was, I'm not trying to do that. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I chuckle every time I walk in there. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:12] Speaker B: I look at the wall, see who else is new, you know? [00:07:15] Speaker A: You know, I, I stop and it's like, dang, I even told you not to mess around. What are you doing, man? All right, you get your 10, get your moment of shame, I guess. But I, I don't know, I can say at least at my grimiest I wasn't a thief. Like, I'm really not trying to ever. I've had situations happen where people get up and leave stuff behind and then two months later they're like, hey, where's my thing? I'm like, you're gone for quite a while and I emptied out my truck. But then they're mad like, you did them dirty. And I'm like, I'm not trying to be bogus, but I got a very small living space. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Right. You can only hold onto stuff for. [00:07:55] Speaker A: So long and I live in that space, so I can't just storage unit it to you. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:01] Speaker A: You know, I do the best I can. I try to advise people not to do drugs and stay away from it. When I live around neighbors that are doing it, I found that there's generally problems or they just off put you. Right, right. And there's a lot of bad memories that keep me from wanting to do it. You know, like I've done a lot of things when I'm under the influence, like tweak or whatever, that it's the memory of it that's so embarrassing in your brain that almost is what keeps you from sitting there thinking, man, wanting to do. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Really do that. [00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like that one just needs to fade into the annals of time. And we won't discuss this. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:47] Speaker A: And like I said there, I see a person in me when I do these drugs that I don't like. But I'll tell you when you're in a spot. I lost my job, my house and my car in the same day, one day. And that's what kind of put me on the street this time. And at that point I just wanted to give up in life. And after six and a half months of sobriety, I was not. I mean, I smoked some BP weed. [00:09:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:16] Speaker A: You know, I don't even drink like that. So I mean, I've had a beer to. Quite literally, I just don't drink. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:25] Speaker A: But weed, yeah, I'm a chimney. But the thing is, is the instant feel good, it feels like in the most hurt alone times in your life, it feels like the absolute solution. You know, it's temporary. You know, it's immediate. But you also know right here at this moment when you're feeling. Feeling overwhelmed by something, it's the thing that will make you not feel that way. [00:09:53] Speaker B: And it takes it all away. [00:09:55] Speaker A: It does. And it's. I understand it's a numbing tactic. It's a reflexive response. But I cannot describe how alone it feels to have to be out here. And there is sometimes there's nobody. I almost froze to death last winter. I got wet and soaked through and there was a public bathroom that was open, they would leave it open to. For the homeless just so they could get out of the cold, you know, and warm up. And here I am, I'm soaked through. And I remember the janitor guy was coming out and he didn't. He didn't even want to let me into the bathroom. And then like he just looked at me, you know, he just kind of looked me down and up. I have my rucksack and all that. And he's like, no, you can't sleep in this bathroom. And all that. [00:10:49] Speaker B: And I said, dude, I'm freezing here. [00:10:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And it really sucked with the wind and the cold because at that point I was actually starting to get hypothermic. I wanted to use the hand dryer. That's what I ended up using anyway. But the guy just didn't even care at that moment. I basically just walked past him. He wasn't gonna let me in there. And I was just like, yeah, whatever, you can call the cops. And I mean, seriously, I'm just trying to warm up and dry off so I don't freeze to death. But at that moment, I really just realized to this guy, the way he looked me over, I wasn't a human. He didn't recognize me as people. Any history. It was just, yeah, you, you can't sleep in. My at that moment just goes dying a snow bank. And I was like, damn. Like just that whole cold hearted dismissal really just kind of made me realize I just ain't to people. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:45] Speaker A: And I don't mean it that way. There's some people, it's not all inclusive. [00:11:50] Speaker B: No. You know, and, and that's part of what I'm trying to get across with, you know, by doing these podcasts is I'm trying to get that awareness out there, get rid of that stigma, get rid of the negative connotation, I guess, on being homeless, you know, that not everybody out there is going to hurt you. Not everybody's a bad person. We're people, we're like everybody else. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Well, the main thing that really causes a lot of the negative action in the homeless community and stuff is truly the need for stuff. And when you got a bunch of people in survival mode, a lot of times people just kind of get focused on, I need to survive today. And then they will compromise moral standards that they normally wouldn't even do. You know, I'm not a thief. I did as, you know, a kid and stuff. But, you know, you learn your lessons or you figure shit out. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:12:49] Speaker A: But I can't say, I can say that even at my worst moments, I haven't been stealing and all that. But I think if I came to the realization that I might die today because I'm barely. I'm too weak to stand because I ain't eaten in three days or, you know, whatever. I've even had the thoughts of just rolling into a quick trip where I know everyone and I know they all know me. I pay every time, come through unpleasant. And I've thought about just running in and grabbing a handful of sandwiches and Just running out the door, you know? But when you're in survival mode, understand, it's not always somebody just trying to take advantage, right? This guy's just trying to eat, right. [00:13:36] Speaker B: When you're in survival mode, the rules of the game change. [00:13:40] Speaker A: A lot of it is subjective to situation. And idealistically, when you're sitting in your living room, in your house and you're working for that, I'm not saying you haven't earned it. I mean, this. Life's a hard road. You got a lot to put in to get this shit. But I don't have that same luxury. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:01] Speaker A: And when you have all that available and you're living in a comfortable situation, it's hard to understand what it is like to be out in the elements when it rains. If I have one, one bag outside, even if it's in a trash bag, all my stuff's wet. And the humidity, if I got to find a spot to open all my stuff up to dry out, otherwise it's just going to get moldy. Right Now I gotta go doing laundry anyway. That was clean. I never even got to wear it, you know? [00:14:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:32] Speaker A: It's. It's hard, right? [00:14:35] Speaker B: Unbelievable. There's a lot of judgment out there about people using substances. Well, homeless. What's something people don't understand about why it happens? I know you kind of touched on that a little bit. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Well, I mean, there's always the situational solution, like I said with, oh, I won't be hungry if I smoke this meth, because I've definitely done that. Hunger, pain sucks. But, you know, also being up for four or five days sucks too. Especially if you only did it because you didn't want to feel hunger. Now you're mad at yourself because you're under the influence of something you didn't even want to be. But being in survival mode, you know, I mean, I've been out here where people have had beef with me, you know, dangerous situations. And, you know, it's also an appeal that, oh, I can be awake at night when my pupils are swelled up. It's like I got night vision on. Give me a little bit of moonlight, I'll see what's going on. And I ain't sleeping, so I can be aware of what's going on around me. And, you know, sometimes, I'm not saying it's right, but this is how people will justify. I need this too. I mean, it feels good. Ain't nobody doing it that it doesn't feel good. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:54] Speaker A: But the survival thing, I've Never really put too much money into drugs. Amazingly, they're just everywhere out here and a lot of people just, they're in the same struggle and it's what they know to feel better. So when they see you're in a hard place, they ain't even trying to do wrong or whatever. [00:16:15] Speaker B: It's like here, this will happen. [00:16:16] Speaker A: They'll just come over here, man, hit this like, you know what I mean? It's how they're trying to take care of care of you, right? So it's, you know, road to hell is paved with good intentions type deal. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Yes, it is. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. [00:16:34] Speaker B: You know, hey, that's absolutely, you know, and, and that's kind of ties in with what you had mentioned before and we had talked about a few times on, on different episodes is the close knit community that's out there that, that nobody really sees or understands. You know, everybody looks out for each other or mostly, you know, check makes sure that you're okay. If somebody hasn't seen somebody in a while, you know, they're asking, hey, where's so and so, you know, and I find Kathleen and I do that, you know, quite often where if we don't see somebody for a while, it's like, hey, where's, you know, whoever, you know, I haven't seen him. Are they okay? [00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah, we've definitely done that. Our guy, Ankh Melman. Oh yeah. Shout out to mailman. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Hell yeah. Gotta love mailman. [00:17:21] Speaker A: But he, he was in the park. He ended up with like a heat stroke and heart issues. I don't really know the whole situation because not being family, they don't really set in here. So we don't even know. We just word of mouth. Whoever can text who if you got a phone and you try to look out, you know, I got my vehicle. So a lot of times, times I'd be playing unofficial homeless, blue cap, right? As long as somebody got a couple dollars and stuff. And you know, you hear the slogans, ask gas or grass, nobody rides for free. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Right? [00:17:59] Speaker A: You know, a lot of people are good with coming up with 5, 10 bucks for gas to get over there here. If they can buy, you know, a half hour of your time, which is cool, that's like, yes, man, I got you. I want helped the guy, right? He had two spots to go cash a check. He couldn't even cash his check for some reason that they weren't open. And so I got him down to the pick and save and he was able to cash his check. 10 bucks guys, you know, I will say we. [00:18:26] Speaker B: We've. Within the past couple days, have talking. Have spoken to Mailman. He's all right. [00:18:31] Speaker A: All right. [00:18:32] Speaker B: He's okay. [00:18:33] Speaker A: I'm real happy to hear that. I heard something about Sunnyside or. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah, Sunny Rage. Yeah. But he's okay. He's doing all right. [00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Can you describe a day in your life when addiction was at its worst? At its worst? What did surviving look like to you at that point? [00:18:55] Speaker A: Surviving. Surviving was actually an unfortunate circumstance of existence. I think it was actually trying to just die at one point. There's a lot of hardship every day you don't have. You lack for the most basic, and then you can get run down. If you neglect yourself and you're not on point, it becomes harder to go get what you need to survive. And sometimes you can fall into a hole, especially when you're doing drugs and your brain ain't right. That's where the demons are talking to you best. And then you want to go lay down on the beach in the sun and just kind of let it do its work. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:43] Speaker A: You know? And then nobody can say, oh, you ain't got to find me around with slit wrists or whatever. Just, ooh, you know, sun stroke out on the beach. This happens every year. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:53] Speaker A: It can just be written off, just unfortunate accident, you know, doesn't have to be nothing. But, I mean, I've definitely felt that sometimes, too. And it's real hard when you don't even have a friend out here sometimes to even look out for you. I've been fortunate. I got a lot of good people around me. I've had a lot of support from, like, the churches in the area, and that's helped me spiritually renew my own. Myself, I should say. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Nice. So was there ever a time when you wanted help but help wasn't available or it didn't work for you? [00:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah. If I had anyone that actually had the answer of, like, how do you stay away from drugs? And here's how your life would be perfect, you know, it's like, oh, shit, go ahead. You can play puppet master. In my life, I've done all this. I got this. But that's not how life works. [00:20:56] Speaker B: No. [00:20:58] Speaker A: And the lack of opportunities. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:06] Speaker A: I'm sorry. My brain kind of ran off. Can I hear that question? [00:21:09] Speaker B: That's quite all right. Was there ever a time when you wanted help but help wasn't available or it didn't work for you? [00:21:15] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Yeah. So with the AODA programs and stuff, like, I've tried DNA group, the AA groups and stuff. But the problem is, no matter where you go, whatever I walk in, it's always my drug, my drug, my drug, and this story and that story. And then I walk out of this mean meeting, and my brain's going, drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs. So, you know, I mean, I found more success and sobriety, personally, when I avoid those problems. Programs, I've always. I'm not. I'm not trying to do drugs. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Some people are. Some people are like, this is the way I am. It's here to be used. That's the point. And if that's where you're at, that's cool. It's not where I'm at, right? So, I mean, I have messed up. You've seen me. I know you have. Embarrassing as that is. It happens, but it's truth. But, yeah, every time I've done it, at least since I decided I am trying to quit, I just realized I couldn't get it out of my system. And, okay, I already up, but I guess I didn't have to use it as the excuse to keep running and continuing to up. So, yeah, I've had a few times where I've fallen off because you. You know, sometimes I'm rolling around. I. I bring a lot of food to a lot of people and stuff. [00:22:45] Speaker B: Yes, you do. [00:22:46] Speaker A: And, you know, blankets, clothes, whatever I can get to people. And I'm just as homeless as everyone else, so it's not like I got a lot of resources doing this. It's just what's available to me. And I can help each other out. It's what the community does for each other. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:23:01] Speaker A: But sometimes, again, in that good faith, you know, I walk up to a couple and I tap on the window. I'm like, hey, man, you need some food? And when the window rolls down, I mean, this guy's eyes had no colors in him. And he looks over at me, and I can just see the cloud coming out. It hit me right in the face, and I was like, I was strong enough for that moment to actually just be like, nah, man, I'm good. But I walked away. And my brain chewed on that foot like a whole day, right? And the next night, I walked right back up to the ride, and I wasn't bringing food, right? And I knocked on the window. I was like, hey, let me. Let me in, man. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Right? [00:23:43] Speaker A: Let me get some of that. And you know, and I was good with drugs. I know this sounds messed up. I used to have a strength where I could hit and Quit every drug. Acid, mushrooms, weak cocaine. Never was an issue for me. I've experienced it all. And then I encountered meth. And meth is the most vicious, brutal bastard I, I've heard, I've ever met. It changed the game. And when I first started, it's false. Sold me the confidence. Because when I first started using meth, about five years ago. Six now. Yeah, six. I was the guy that could throw just a small little shard into a bubble. I'd take two or three hits and I knew it was enough. I used it kind of like Adderall. It was enough where it would put me on point, it would give me energy, jack me up for whatever job I had. And it wouldn't blast my eyes any more than. [00:24:45] Speaker B: So it was kind of inconspicuous at that point. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Nobody knew, right? So I would hit it and leave it in my closet. Not just once in a while. And I was able to maintain that. And on some other shit. Some stuff happens around me and life didn't even really have much to do with what I was going on. But they just kind of came in and I'm on paper, I get revocated. I go to the joint and then when I came out this time, I met somebody with that I knew real well in my youth type deal. And just so happens, you know, where I'm put up is right there by where they operate, right. So I just had an unlimited access. And I wasn't even ready for it like that. Just people showing up a large amount, sitting around with nothing else to do because I'm not even going to stay in the area. This is just a temporary spot till I figure things out. So I go on a binge, right? And then it became my off switch. Disappear. And then. Yeah, then you realize you got a problem when you get an eight ball and you smoke it until you feel like you got a belt wrapped around your forehead, you know, and you're sweating bullets for the next three days and not realizing that that'll be what kills you that way because you're. You feel super human. You feel powerful. You don't have to feel a hunger, you don't have to feel. Feel thirst, tired. What's that? [00:26:14] Speaker B: Right? [00:26:15] Speaker A: You know, pain. No, like it's all gone everywhere. And what kills me is I actually see, weirdly enough, a lot of elderly are starting to partake of methamphetamine and stuff versus other drugs versus the elderly. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:33] Speaker A: And I almost understand it because I worked with a guy. I won't mention is name, but he was in a much different area anyway, but he owned a painting company, big name where I was. And my buddy, may he rest in peace, he actually died of fentanyl laced methamphetamine. He was my best friend, but yeah, they laced this stuff for $5. But yeah, a 75 year old guy with heart issues and my best friend asked him, he looks over at him, he's like, why do you do meth? You got a heart problem? Are you just trying to die? And the guy looks at him and goes, see, at my age it's like it'll give you a hard on. He's like, I haven't had that in years. He said he doesn't feel any pain. He has energy that just don't have. You see him walking with the walker slow. It's because they just don't have that much energy. [00:27:35] Speaker B: Feel like a million bucks at that point. [00:27:37] Speaker A: They're still kicking. So yeah, when they hit it and they feel 20 years younger, I understand. You know what I mean, right? Absolutely. So I can see where it's getting popular even in the elder crowds and stuff. But it's, it's so devastating to everything, you know, in life, everything it touches. I, I heard somebody say it the best. It's the, it's the most enjoyable way to destroy your life. Wow. That's like. [00:28:10] Speaker B: That's the best way to put it. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the most enjoyable thing. Yeah. Wow. [00:28:17] Speaker B: What's one thing that you wish outreach workers, service providers, or even everyday people understood better about addiction in the streets? [00:28:31] Speaker A: A lot of times people have severe mental or emotional trauma that are out here. And a lot of people out here are predatory. Women get raped often, or at least taken advantage of. I'm not so some of them do get raped, as you would think of a rape. But more often than not, I'll see. And I feel bad for some of the women out here because, you know, the options they run into is trading sex for a bed for the night even. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:07] Speaker A: And that's not good. Or if everyone wants to do drugs. But it's always got the, there's always a catch, the strings attached or the unspoken motives that turn weird in the lone moment, you know, or whatever it is. And I really just feel bad for that because a lot of time, again, it's survival mode. So when people are so worried about the prostitution and the drugs and stuff, a lot of people are just masking pain, you know, that they exist day to day for the deals with the devil they've made to eat and have four walls a night in a roof. You know, it's easy to look at people as bad when you have stuff and don't you have the option? But if you're stuck out here and your option is sleep in a snow bank and freeze to death, would you, honestly, in all seriousness, if you actually had to live that, what choice would you make? Would you make something to survive or would you, would you take your honor to a grave one night they found you frozen in a dumpster trying to hide under cardboard because it's insulation. [00:30:21] Speaker B: Right. It's easy to point fingers and judge if you're sitting in your nice comfy house. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And I've lived that way too, so I just understand the other side of it and actually realize how much I took for granted when I had it, even when I had had it all by my own, on my own too as a man in life, you know. But I don't right now have it. [00:30:47] Speaker B: That way, you know, And I realize there's lots of nights running, this whole pay it forward thing and you know, working with population that we work with daily. It's been a real eye opener. Like you just said. There's a lot of things that have, I guess I've. I don't know, I guess just took for granted. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:16] Speaker B: That you don't think about because, you know, hey, I want something. I'm just, I'm going to walk to the fridge, I'm going to, I'm going to grab something to eat, I want to drink a water. I'm going to go to the kitchen faucet or you know, or something like that and stuff that you just don't think about. But since doing all of this, there's nights that I'll be laying in bed or whatever and it's stored, storming out or it's, you know, whether it be raining or, or you know, heaven forbid, snow and I'm laying there. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I understand. [00:31:46] Speaker B: And I worry about everybody out there. Are they dry, are they safe, are they warm? You know, and then there goes my chance of sleeping for the night. Because I'm up. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Yeah, because you're up. Worrying, worrying. [00:32:00] Speaker B: How is everybody? [00:32:01] Speaker A: Well, like you, when people come up missing and all that, there's kind of a whole network of people out here that go on a mission. Just. It's not even that we're going out and hitting the road to look for you, but hey, we're doing stuff already through the day, so. Yeah, I'll keep an eye on. See ya. Bam. Oh, I just seen Them up in this alley, go check them out and then you'll catch your story or what. But information travels differently. [00:32:29] Speaker B: Yes, it does. [00:32:30] Speaker A: But I can tell you, being in my hot ass vehicle, right, I don't have ac. I'm gonna tell you. And it sucks. Not. I wouldn't have the gas to run the AC anyway, so that'd just be its own thing. But honestly, I've gone by and seen people on the concrete just envious. Like, I know the ground's sucking heat out of here, but when you say them rainy days and stuff, you know, you know, you drive around to your buddies and like make sure people are getting to their spots or whatever. Dry. Because we know dryness is a luxury and during the damp days. [00:33:10] Speaker B: Sure is. Well, even the heat and humidity, you know, trying to stay dry with that, you know, you're 80, 90, 100% humidity, you move and you're dripping wet, you know. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, even in my truck, you know, unless it's moving, if I park in the sun like yesterday. Oh, that was. [00:33:28] Speaker B: I can't even imagine. [00:33:29] Speaker A: I want. I went and head out to the. At the library. I ain't gonna lie. [00:33:33] Speaker B: Perfect. Nice and cool there. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Apply for jobs and stuff. Actually, I was setting up a phone. I haven't had a phone in a long time, so. Very happy life achievement. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Awesome. Hey, steps forward or still steps forward. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Exactly. Everything. Yeah, but it's. It's those little steps that open up the doorways to something better. So, you know, everyone wants the steps, but you forget the steps are made of little blocks too. There's always smaller pieces to the puzzle that just have to be in place, that have more stability. Because I'll tell you, after living this way, I want out, you know, I mean, it has its adventurous vibe. I don't mind nomad lifestyle. I'm a very spartan individual. Like. But not everybody's built for that like that. And I don't want to. This ain't my retirement plan. [00:34:32] Speaker B: You know, I was, I guess if you want to call it fortunate when I, when I lived out of my truck, it was middle of summer, you. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Know, so sorry for that. [00:34:41] Speaker B: You know, I avoided the cold weather, you know, thankfully. [00:34:44] Speaker A: But yeah, see, I've done that. I remember nights so cold you pull the hat off your head and you put it over your toes or. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Just trying to, you know, I didn't always have a vehicle to crash in either, so, you know, public bathrooms were a thing and stuff. And it's really kind of a nasty living standard because you know what it is. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Have you seen some of those public bathrooms? They're not the nicest places. [00:35:07] Speaker A: More intimately than I should have, you know, I mean, it's just. Just whatever it is. And, you know, I mean, you go in there, people think that, oh, you're just lazy and you want to live this way. But, you know, I've walked into the bathroom with my sleeping bag and looked down at the floor and been like, well, I know there's a lot of piss splatter from random people. I don't know. And now I gotta put my sleeping material on it. [00:35:32] Speaker B: Like, I gotta lay my head on that. [00:35:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, if I get a cut now, I'm more prone to infections and shit, like serious infections than anyone else, you know. Wow. But, you know, there's a lot of good people out here. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:35:48] Speaker A: I don't want to mention all the names and stuff, but ministries and churches and their representatives that go around at night. And a lot of them have lived the way we've lived at one point in their life too. So at least they didn't forget they came from. [00:36:05] Speaker B: They know what it's like to be in the trenches. [00:36:07] Speaker A: I like to help people. I've lived this way for way longer than I should have. I just, you know, had to do me, I guess. But this. I ended up finding God through this. I was an ardent pagan when I first started homelessness, but I guess I realized at one point that the actual help that I was getting wasn't owed. It wasn't Thor. I had the belief, I felt the internal powers and stuff, because if I didn't, I never would have even believed. Why waste my time, right? But then I realized at one point it was the Christian congregation and by proxy, their God that was providing basic food and clothing. I knew no pagan organizations doing this, right? And although good lifestyle, great ideals, I'm not a bad person. I would never have been a pagan if it was some satanic cult or something. But my first prayers to God didn't even include myself. I was. I felt it was respectful to honor the deity of the temple in which I am feasting among his followers. I mean, you are providing me this meal, and if I'm not ejected, it's been by your grace, I'm here, right? So, you know, I walked in and I started sneaking off to this little chapel off to the side, and I just sit down, I. Very pretty. I'm not allowed to go there. I didn't know that at the time. I just figured it was a church. But I Was new to being out here in the streets. It was my first time homeless in the city. I've been homeless in the woods, but that's a different skill. Absolutely different. Yeah. So I had to learn a little about how to be homeless down here. But, yeah, my first prayers were thank you for your Christian following, the good works they have done for me. And it was as simple as that. And then I started, you know, everyone knows some of the apostles, and Saul was not such a great man. And he becomes Paul. And I'm looking at my life. I've definitely done a lot of stuff I'm not proud of the skeletons that can stay buried in the closet type deal, I guess. But we're trying to live better, you know, most of us. Yeah, we're trying to be good neighbors. [00:38:52] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:38:53] Speaker A: You know, some of them just are misguided kids just like everyone else. [00:38:58] Speaker B: And that kind of goes back to, you know. And I know I've said this probably in several of the episodes so far, you know, I've had people ask me, you know, why do we do this kind of stuff? Why do, you know, why do we continue to do this? And I don't hesitate to let everybody know that some of the most amazing people I've ever met have been within these four walls. You know, the resilience, the determination, the survival, I guess astounds me, is absolutely amazing. [00:39:30] Speaker A: What I find most about people out here is. Yeah, the experience, it really carves the most unique individuals you will ever meet in life. [00:39:43] Speaker B: 100%. Where are you now in your journey with substance use? [00:39:52] Speaker A: Well, honestly, same as always. I'm really trying not to do heavy drugs and all, but I did have a mishap three weeks ago, and that resulted in, well, you know, me forgetting where I parked for like, two days and having to go on a mission to find my car. But, you know, I mean, again, these are the things that keep you straight. Yeah, well, hey, I got a new pair of shoes. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember that. So what's helping you move forward, even if it's just one small step at a time? [00:40:32] Speaker A: Honestly, I'm an owner guy, so I don't always show my appreciation proper to the people around me. A lot of times I'm irritated with all the negative going on and having to mediate. But honestly, like I said, I'm trying to get myself straight and find a job. So I'm really working on that whole hit my shower, get her right when I get a call from Indeed or whatever it may be. And guess I don't have to drive far for work when I'm homeless. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:10] Speaker A: I mean, there's that. There's an upside to everything. I really just want to be able to show up to an interview and be told, yes, this is the job. You can work for a couple years at least. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:21] Speaker A: I'll go find another place. Place or something, but something that will work out. I liked the job I had when I lost my job, my house, and my car on the same day. But when the house and car went, I didn't even have time for the job. So it all just kind of perfect. Trifecta. Wham, bam. [00:41:38] Speaker B: I was gonna say at that point, you lose the house, you lose the car. The job at that point is. It's not even a care, I would imagine. It's like. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I had a care, but I mainly just didn't want to end up. I don't know, I felt embarrassed. I worked at Culver's over in Utberg. [00:41:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:41:58] Speaker A: And I had, when I moved out of my father's to get up on my feet first. Got this place with my then girlfriend and all that. It felt like I was getting the achievement, finally standing up on my feet. And when everything disappeared that day, you know, I went on a binge and all that. But I remember now I'm strung out because that's where I had that personal. I just don't want to feel this bad at this moment. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:31] Speaker A: And I knew it wasn't the right answer, but I was just feeling so overwhelmed that my sadness literally hurt physically. I don't know how to describe that. [00:42:40] Speaker B: I get that. [00:42:41] Speaker A: And I was just like, yeah, no, I don't care. Here's my deal with the devil. Because right now, I cannot handle this all like this. And so I chose wrong, you know, But I have my reason. [00:42:53] Speaker B: I was gonna say at the time, it wasn't wrong. You know, I guess as odd as. [00:42:57] Speaker A: It sounds, I mean, it was wrong. But it's just when you're feeling that. That was what I felt was my solution. And I'll just not to feel this at the moment. I. I wanted to be able to take pieces of this and process it. I'm not trying to eat the whole thing all at once because it's just. It's overwhelming. There's a lot. And trying to find your way back out and get back on your feet has been the thing. So I guess my goal is now I got that phone. That's an accomplishment. And had it not been the homeless community and all the people out here, I wouldn't even have that. It's just how people come together to make happen. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Somebody in need. [00:43:38] Speaker B: Like I said, there's some amazing people. [00:43:39] Speaker A: They are. And without them, I wouldn't be here either. So, you know, I mean, don't forget brotherhood. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:43:49] Speaker A: Because we don't have a house doesn't mean we're not you guys. It just means it just looks not stable. Yeah, sorry. It smells a little different too. Let me tell you what. [00:44:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So I guess on that note, if anybody knows, anybody hiring, you know, put a little plug out there, get ahold of me. If you could say one thing to someone listening who is struggling right now, what would it be? [00:44:21] Speaker A: That's actually a real hard question. Because, you know, if I knew, I probably wouldn't be out here living exactly the way I'm living. And this is the thing about life. You gotta realize you got the blindfold on and you're feeling around in the fog, and you figure it out. You figure ways that move, that work and repetition and pattern. So you learn and you get on. But the thing is, I really don't know no better than everyone else, but understand that when you're at the bottom and you understand the struggle like that, you are humbled. So be humble. You know, just realize these people are just trying to do what they do to stay away from drugs. Don't get into that because it's. It will destroy everything and set you back and make it harder to even survive out here. But I understand the attraction to it because it can provide the immediate results that seem to make things better. [00:45:31] Speaker B: At least at that moment. Yes. [00:45:33] Speaker A: And when you live day to day, it's hard to keep your brain focused on a far goal because you don't even know what's changing the next day. I can't make plans. Plans a week out. Because I really don't know. [00:45:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Damn. [00:45:50] Speaker B: All right, so we're gonna kind of wrap this up here. I do, man. I appreciate you sitting down and talking with me. This is huge. Thank you. Addiction doesn't erase humanity. Struggle doesn't erase worth. Your story matters, and so do you. And thank you for trusting us with. [00:46:06] Speaker A: This piece of your life. [00:46:09] Speaker B: Addiction and homelessness are battles fought in public. But healing almost always starts with being heard. Thank you for listening to Sheboygan stories on how's an unheard. Remember, keep your heart open and pay it forward. If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, help is available. Call 1-800-662-help for free. Confidential support 24 hours a day. You are not alone. [00:46:33] Speaker A: It.