Episode Transcript
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Welcome back to Sheboygan Stories on house and unheard. I'm your host, Scott labonte. This podcast is about truth, what it means to survive without a home, what it takes to hold on to hope, and the people who show up in the middle of it all. Today I'm talking with someone who doesn't just work in a system. They try to help people through it. A caseworker, a guide, a steady voice in the noise.
Lisa T, thank you for being here.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Thank you for allowing me to share.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: I want to start by asking, what led you to become a caseworker?
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Well, I had done some casework with high school students with disabilities in Florida, and I've been here in Wisconsin since 2016.
And when this opportunity came up, I knew that it would relate to a lot of experience that I've had personally. And so it was something I was passionate about.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Awesome. 2016, that's when I got here. Yeah, people hear caseworker and picture paperwork and appointments, but I know it's a whole lot more than that. What's a day in your shoes really like?
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Okay, well, there are lots of, you know, online zoom and in person appointments, but in addition to that, there's a lot of connecting to resources, which isn't just sending someone some information.
A lot of times I have to connect to that resource for them first or learn about it first.
People are in a lot of vulnerable positions where, you know, they're not really prepared to reach out or they just don't have that confidence. So there's a lot of that. There's a lot of advocacy. There's a lot of holding people's hands through meetings and appointments.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Oh, I get that.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's really, you know, doing whatever I can to help them achieve their next goal, to become more stable.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: That is awesome.
What's the hardest part of this job that nobody talks about?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: That nobody talks about?
I think the hardest part of the job that nobody talks about is when you come across other people in what I call the system of care that are not particularly caring and maybe don't really want to be caring.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: And you?
I found myself doing the same thing. You ask how and why did they end up in this line of work?
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Exactly.
I think for some people, it's literally just, oh, it's a job.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Right. It's a paycheck for those that are really in the trenches, like yourself and like us at pay it forward stuff. It's more than just, well, we don't get a paycheck yet.
But it's more Than just a job.
You connect with these people.
I think we mentioned that in the first episode was it's amazing how quickly you become attached to these people that you're working with.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: Yes. It is a little bit of a tightrope because you have to remain objective and healthy.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Boundaries.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: Right. And just being able to be.
In order for me to be a support for them, I can't let them know exactly how much I care.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Right. And how much it gets to you.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Yes.
There are nights that, you know, like, I go home and if the weather's bad and I know, you know, I know there's people out on the streets and I know as horrible as it sounds, I guess I'm laying in my comfy bed and I'm thinking of everybody that's out there and are they safe, are they warm, are they dry? Or, you know, and so much for sleeping that night. And I'm sure you run into that as well.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, probably the. Going back to that for first question about how what led me to become a caseworker was when I had this opportunity to interview for the position, there had been a particular person, a couple of people that I had seen like on a regular basis that were unhoused. And I was like, I don't know what the whole story is, but that's wrong. That's just wrong. I don't understand.
And so, you know, that was something that I often thought about. That's. I think it's just part of who you are, if you care about those things.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. You know, I, I don't, I don't see how somebody would get into this if you don't care about those kind of things. But, you know, it happens. It does. I was gonna say, as we mentioned before, it does happen.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Or maybe people get burnout.
I mean, obviously this is an area, a field of work that, you know, people. It has a high burnout rate.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: It definitely does. It is a stressful job.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: So with all that stress and with everything, you know, that weighs heavily on your head and your heart and stuff, what keeps you coming back.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: All humans are human beings and we all have to live on.
Not to get like, super, you know, whatever, but we all have to live on this earth in this community together. And it's in everyone's best interest.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: If basic needs are met and the next person being able to achieve something or get something that they really need for their general well being and health of themselves and or their family, like, to me that, that makes me feel better about Everything.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: Right.
You know, it goes back to that basic need that seems to be a recurring theme of every episode that I've done so far. And, and I had mentioned in one of them, I have so many people that come to me and say, well, you know, you do this. Why don't these people just get a job?
And I have to tell you that the grate's on me. It really does.
How do you make somebody understand at that point that. And Jimmy had mentioned this even last week. He says if your basic needs aren't met, the job is the lowest thing possible that you're even thinking about. You're worried about what are you going to eat, where are you going to sleep. He had mentioned even, where do you go to the bathroom? You know, something that we don't even think about that's on their minds every single day. How do you think, you know, how can you focus on, geez, I need to get a job? I mean, come on now.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I don't think people, you know, I guess until you're really in that position, which unfortunately, I mean, I have been at a point in my life, then you can't really understand how extra, triple, quadruple, can tuple difficult. Everything becomes, like you said, just going to the bathroom.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Right. Something so simple that we don't think about is on the forefront, that you.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Can'T just go take a shower. So I know it sounds disgusting, but so you have like a bowel movement. You can't properly clean yourself and you're supposed to go to an interview like that or to work like that.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: You know, I worked with someone who was coming into work, he was still showing up to work, and the people in his job started making comments about his body odor and things like that. And he was really doing the best that he could.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Right. You know, they don't have access to the showers, you know, stuff that. Again, stuff we don't think about that often.
That's an everyday thing.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: You're often the one sitting next to someone when they're trying to get housing benefits, an ID treatment, whatever it is that they need.
Do you feel like the system is helping or hurting most days?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: The system, I think there are parts of the system that are conflicting and I think there's. There's harm and help happening at the same time.
And it's kind of like trying to find that mix of where you can keep inching more towards the help.
Right. But there are a lot of things in the system that, that are very problematic for individuals who are experiencing, you know, being unhoused. I mean, if you, if you want to get into an apartment, you have to have a birth certificate.
Probably your birth certificate has been stolen, you've lost it somewhere. Maybe it was in the house that you never got to get back to that, you know, was you were evicted from.
If you've been evicted, there are some places that they want you to have no evictions for 10 years. 10 years.
Like nobody can make a mistake and then they have to be punished for 10.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: We're human. People make mistakes.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: You know, I mean, that's like kind of ridiculous.
So they're, you know, it's like any other naturally occurring ecosystem, I guess, you know, But I feel like the, the ph is off right now, so there's a lot of harm being done.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: I agree. You know, and like you mentioned, it's hard to find that balance.
Right.
So what's a moment that really hit you emotionally? Good or bad? Something that you still carry with you?
[00:09:35] Speaker B: Well, I could probably give you both.
Something that hit me really, really good was when I was working with someone who had been, you know, unhoused for quite some time, couple years, like in plain view of everyone in the community and just looked over and really they didn't have any criminal background, no substance abuse disorder, they didn't have any evictions. Nothing that would have kept them from being housed except for a physical disability and a language barrier.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: And now that that person is housed, like the last home visit I had with that person, you could really tell was regaining confidence and it was like a different person.
But it took six months to even see that begin to take place.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: It is definitely a slow, painful process.
You know, you had mentioned even like getting your birth certificate that you need for housing or whatever else. We have a peer currently that that's the only thing that's holding her up from getting her place.
And, you know, she's been on the streets for quite a while now, and who knows where it ended up over the years.
And then she runs into, you know, I guess first of all, how to get to the Social Security office to get it, you know, and then even that if you forget a piece of paper, you know, that you need, then heaven forbid, you can't, you gotta come.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: Back, start all over again.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Right. You're starting from ground zero. And access to and from isn't always the easiest thing, and it's just very troublesome.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, people don't. People really take for granted as someone who's working and House. Like, it is sometimes difficult for me to get to places.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: During open business hours. Like, they're not really there to serve people who are, you know, right. Functioning. So they're definitely. It's definitely going to be difficult for people who are not at 100%.
[00:11:48] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: And. And there are things that, you know, I think the only time that things like that get addressed is when they have someone advocating yes for them. Because you get tired.
You get so tired.
Everything so hard, you know, and then you just need somebody else to, like, maybe help you organize your thoughts or organize your calendar or, you know, give you some reminders or go, we can do this. You can do it.
[00:12:17] Speaker A: Right? You know, we find the same thing. You know, you run into, okay, you need to do this, this, this, and this, and then you have to do it across town.
That's. That's huge to some people. The anxiety, the. The. It's overwhelming.
That's a step that a lot of people, they get to that point, they're like, you know what? I'm not going to heck with it. We're done. You know, don't worry about it. It's too much.
And we do see that. And, you know, we try to.
When we had the center open and stuff, we had. We tried to get, like, caseworkers and stuff would come in periodically and help out with that to try to alleviate some of that anxiety and stress that comes along with these little baby steps in the right direction.
Can you walk us through the process someone goes through trying to get help?
[00:13:15] Speaker B: I mean, it varies greatly, but they have to be able to admit to themselves that they need that help first.
And sometimes it's very difficult for people to do.
Then they have to figure out what kind of help they need and where would I get that help from and what do I need to do to, like, you know, qualify to get that help.
So. And then once they do that, once they do that, if they. If they get a good caseworker like most of us are.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Right, absolutely.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Then. Then they're gonna. They're gonna be able to accomplish some things. It doesn't mean they're. They're not still gonna get a little bit tired and have to maybe come back again and try all over again.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. You kind of touched a little bit on this. But if somebody wants help but doesn't know how to begin, what would you say to them?
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Ask. Ask people if they know where you can get help from.
I think some good points of contact are, you know, I. And I think most people Know, shelters, human services, sometimes the police.
Lakeshore Cab.
Can I do that?
[00:14:33] Speaker A: Okay, absolutely.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Lakeshore Cab, churches, places like that, you know, these are all helping places for the most part. And somebody will have some information for you.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Right.
Sometimes, though, you know, we run into two.
As odd as they don't know what they don't know, you know, and it's hard to ask for help if you don't know that's the direction you need to go, or that's the resource that you need.
And that becomes a problem, too. And that's where, you know, someone like you steps in and says, okay, this is what we need to do first. This is, you know, and that's huge stepping stone for them that points them in the right direction, gets them the resources they need, and hopefully get them on the right track to securing housing or even just taking that next step to get towards that, which is huge.
What do you wish every elected official or community member really understood about homelessness?
[00:15:36] Speaker B: It can happen to anybody. That means you, too. That means your mom, that means your sister, that means your wife, your ex wife, your kids.
It can happen to anyone.
And it has happened to all different kinds of people. Famous people, Steve Jobs, Shania Twain.
Like, there's so many people out there, and you just never know what's going to cause it.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: But it's usually a nice little set of circumstances that were just enough to push you over that edge. And so all those people are not going to just disappear. They're going to be here and they're going to be part of society. And then it's just in our best interest to try to figure out how to help them and.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: And to all work together to try to achieve that.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Even people, you know, there. I know there are certain populations that people are like, oh, you know, oh, I don't. They should be there. No. Nobody should be unhoused.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Okay. Because at the end of the day, even if it's somebody who you consider to be scary or dangerous or something like that, isn't it better to know where they're at?
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Isn't it better to have a point of contact so that, you know, we. We can help them if they need help so that somebody knows what's going on?
Everyone needs to be housed.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, when the very first episode we put out was Kathleen and I sitting talking, and we had mentioned, you know, Hugh had said, it can happen to anybody. And we always look at it as.
Everyone is one crisis away from being in that same predicament. Somebody's crisis may need to be a whole lot bigger than mine. I'm a school teacher. It wouldn't take a whole lot.
And I think that scares a lot of people, you know, knowing that you're walking that fine line, that it could happen. You know, we've had peers ended up in a hospital, and once you fall behind on a payment or if you miss a rent payment or whatever it is, it's hard to get caught back up, you know, and then you get that snowball effect, and that leads to the other thing, and other bills start piling up, and before you know it, you're out. You're on the streets, too.
And Jimmy had mentioned last week when I talked to him, too, you know, about the stigma that's attached. You know, the people, they don't look them in the eyes. They don't, you know, they will cross the street instead of walking on the sidewalk with them, you know, and he says, just look at us. Just acknowledge. Say hi. He says, we're people, too.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: I was gonna say for I actually I had an answer.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: Awesome. Go ahead.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: First thing is to treat people like people. No matter what, treat them with respect and.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: I mean, they're not.
They're not aliens.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: They're not gonna bite you.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: Right. You know, and I had mentioned previously, one of, you know, people ask why we do this and why we continue to do this. And I don't hesitate to tell them, you know, some of the most amazing people I've ever met have been within those four walls.
Some of them, it takes a little longer to, you know, for them to break down the walls and the barriers.
But you hear their stories, you connect with them, and, man, there's some amazing people.
Strength and resilience and that I can't even comprehend.
I mean, I lived in my truck for one summer. I was technically unhoused. I had a truck that I lived in. Thankfully, it was summer and I didn't have to worry about inclement weather.
But, man, they do this year round, and some of them for years.
I can't imagine that.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. It's very difficult. And I think you have to remember that it just comes back to treat other people like you want to be treated. What if you're in that position? Is that how you want to be treated?
It could happen.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: Oh, quicker. Quicker than you think.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Caseworkers don't always get the spotlight, but without you, a lot of folks wouldn't make it through the maze.
I see what you do, and I know it's more than a job.
Thank you for being here and for showing up for people every single day.
Is there anything else you'd like to add before we close it out?
[00:20:18] Speaker B: There's just a lot of really awesome people who are out here and are unhoused. And I think a good example of that is the person who ran the Haven previously to the current director, but I mean, he had been on House. I mean, what you experience being on House can be like this huge strength that can add to your community once you are stabilized. So these are not throwaway people.
Nobody is throwaway.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Absolutely. You know, and being unhoused isn't who you are. It's a temporary situation.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: You know, that doesn't define somebody that you know.
But often people look at, you know, look at it that way. And it's very unfortunate.
Hopefully, through this, through what you do, what we do, this podcast, hopefully we're going to change some of that and hopefully open some people's eyes and help them to realize that they are people and just acknowledge them and be kind.
All right. This has been Sheboygan Stories, unhoused and unheard of. This system might be messy, but the people in it, they matter.
If this story moved, you, share it, start a conversation and never forget. No one should be unheard. Not here, not anywhere.
Thanks for listening to Sheboygan Stories on how's an unheard? Remember to keep your heart open and pay it forward.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Sam.
