Episode Transcript
[00:00:24] Welcome back to Sheboygan Stories unhoused and unheard Of.
[00:00:28] If you're new here, my name is Scott, and this podcast exists to share real stories, real experiences, and real conversations about homelessness in our community, especially the parts that don't always get talked about.
[00:00:40] Today's episode is a little different, probably gonna be a little shorter than the past ones I've been to because it's only me here this time. I don't have a guest, I don't have Kathleen sitting here with me.
[00:00:50] It's only me. But it's a few things that's been kind of running through my head, and if you know me, you know, my brain works really weird and I'm always thinking of something.
[00:01:04] Today's episode is a little different.
[00:01:08] It's more personal.
[00:01:10] And as I just mentioned, it's been kind of hanging with me for a little while, and I just kind of. I threw it together and I wanted to put it out there.
[00:01:18] And if you're following along, like I said, if you know me, you know, that's kind of the way my brain works.
[00:01:25] Before Pay It Forward.
[00:01:28] Before the Day Center.
[00:01:30] Before this podcast, I was, and still am an elementary school special education teacher. I teach out in Howards Grove. I'm at Northview Elementary. Amazing. Truly an amazing district and an amazing school.
[00:01:47] And over time, I started to realize something that I just can't unsee anymore.
[00:01:54] The way we support students with disabilities and the way we should be supporting people experiencing homelessness have way more in common than most people realize.
[00:02:09] In special education, one of the very first things we learn is that there is no one size fits all solution.
[00:02:18] Every student is different, every need is different, and every plan is individualized.
[00:02:26] And that's why we have IEPs.
[00:02:28] That's why we assess strengths and not deficits.
[00:02:32] And that's why we meet kids where they are, not where we wish they were.
[00:02:38] It's kind of funny, I chuckle, you know, thinking about this, because we had just gone out to lunch with a couple of our friends and we were talking about school in iep. You know, they asked how school was going and stuff and if I still liked it and how things were going. And we were talking about IEPs, and we were talking about supporting the students and my role in the school and my role in my classroom even.
[00:03:07] And I've been fortunate enough that I've been on both sides of the table when it comes to IEPs.
[00:03:19] Prior to being an elementary school special education teacher, I was on the opposite side of this table. I was on the parent side with Madeline.
[00:03:31] And now I get the added bonus of being on the educator's side of the iep.
[00:03:40] And when we talk about every student being different, every need is different, every plan is individualized and assessing strengths and not deficits.
[00:03:53] I remember one of the very first things.
[00:03:57] Wifey Kathleen had gone to an IEP meeting for Madeleine, and she came home just completely distraught and just, Just a mess. Quite quite honestly, a mess because of it, you know, and they went into this IEP with everything that Madeline can't do that, how she doesn't compare to her same age peers.
[00:04:26] And she's just, she's not reaching these goals or these milestones or things that should be in the norm that she's not getting.
[00:04:39] I promised myself at that point, that was, I think, even before I had started school for special education. I was a 5th grade teacher prior to that when I was in Michigan.
[00:04:49] And through all of this and raising Madeline stuff is what made me realize or made me, I guess, want to get into special education. And because I see the struggles, I know the hardships, I know what parents go through, I know what kids go through, or at least in our situation, I don't want. Please don't assume that you know that I know what everybody goes through because, like, you know, everyone's different.
[00:05:16] But with that, I made the promise that I will never. And I still have not. I do not, and I will not ever go into an IEP meeting and tell the parents what their child cannot do.
[00:05:31] We know full well as parents what our kids can't do.
[00:05:37] We don't need you to rub that in our faces and say, hey, you know, your kid can't do this and your kid can't do that. No, yeah, we know. Honest. We know.
[00:05:45] I go into this IEP and I'm talking about how amazing of a child they have, how incredible or how creative they are at what they do and how they found a way around the struggles and the parts that really they get hung up on.
[00:06:03] I focus on their successes and I take those successes and I, I use that then to how can I build off of those successes to help that child even more focus on what they're good at and build from that.
[00:06:22] And it seems to go fairly well.
[00:06:26] A child isn't defined by what they can't do.
[00:06:32] You know, it's one of those. I know.
[00:06:35] But yet when it comes to homeless, we seem to forget all of that.
[00:06:42] We expect people to follow the rigid systems that we have in place.
[00:06:47] We expect linear progress.
[00:06:49] And if you Follow this podcast if you happen to listen to the last episode. When Kathleen and I sat down, we talked a lot on the linear progress, on how that's not a thing that just. It doesn't happen.
[00:07:02] There's no easy fix to this. It's not that way.
[00:07:08] We expect compliance before stability and when somebody's struggling, we label it as refusal or laziness or lack of effort instead of asking the most important question, what's getting in the way?
[00:07:31] In schools were taught something critical that behavior is communication.
[00:07:38] A child acting out isn't bad per se.
[00:07:42] They're overwhelmed, they're dysregulated, they're communicating the only way they know how at that time.
[00:07:50] But when adults experiencing homelessness struggle, when they're angry, withdrawn, inconsistent or defensive, we call out a character flawless.
[00:08:01] How is that? Why is that we forget that trauma doesn't disappear when you turn 18, doesn't magically vanish.
[00:08:13] Hunger is still hunger, fear is still fear and sleep deprivation is still sleep deprivation.
[00:08:21] You cannot expect someone to self regulate when they don't know where they're sleeping tonight, thankfully, you know, we appreciate huge, the warming center and everything they do for our peers and getting them off the streets and, and especially in this cold weather, staying open longer hours and, and not pushing people back out on the streets trying to find someplace warm or someplace to stay out of the elements.
[00:08:52] I really do appreciate the fact that they are willing to do that and stay open because it's about them. It's not about us.
[00:09:01] Yes, it's more difficult with staffing and finding volunteers or people to be there, but it doesn't go unnoticed by the community or the peers that you serve.
[00:09:15] So thank you.
[00:09:20] You can't expect long term planning when survival is the only priority. And we talk about that a lot in these episodes on how our peers are in survival mode. How do you focus on anything other than getting through the day when you don't know what you're going to eat, where you're going to sleep, or have we talked about a couple times, heaven forbid, where you're going to use a bathroom.
[00:09:47] All stuff that we tend to take for granted because we don't have to think about it. It's not an issue, it is what it is. But that's part of their everyday life.
[00:09:59] And the big one. You cannot expect trust from someone who's been failed by the system their entire life.
[00:10:06] It's another thing we talked about a lot, the amount of time it takes to build that trust and that relationship with our homeless peers because they've been pushed aside. They've been shit on. They've been treated as less than human for so long because of their situation, because of the circumstance that they're in.
[00:10:29] Circumstance doesn't define who you are.
[00:10:36] They're not technically a homeless person. I mean, I know they are currently unhoused and possibly living on the streets or wherever they can, but that doesn't define who they are.
[00:10:50] And that's where language matters.
[00:10:55] Through all the times of doing this, I've heard people tell me that they're uncomfortable with some of the language that we use.
[00:11:05] I just chuckle because I think it's kind of funny.
[00:11:09] They don't like when we say peers.
[00:11:13] They don't like when we use the term vulnerable population.
[00:11:18] Well, you know what?
[00:11:20] They are our peers.
[00:11:22] They're no less than we are. They are equals.
[00:11:26] Going back to the circumstance doesn't define who you are. They're still human beings.
[00:11:33] They just seem to have fallen in hard times.
[00:11:36] They're struggling.
[00:11:38] And that's what makes them a vulnerable population also, because, yeah, they don't have the security or the stability that we do. They don't have the four walls to hide within. They don't have the comfort of a home or knowing that we've got food in the fridge or food in the cabinet or bathroom right down the hall.
[00:11:58] They are a vulnerable population.
[00:12:02] And in special education, we don't define students by what they lack.
[00:12:08] We don't reduce them to their diagnosis.
[00:12:10] We don't say, well, that autistic or that behavior problem.
[00:12:18] We use person first language because it matters.
[00:12:22] So why would we strip that dignity away from adults?
[00:12:25] Calling someone a peer doesn't elevate them above everyone else. It simply acknowledges shared humanity and the discomfort that comes with that.
[00:12:34] That says more about us than it does about them.
[00:12:39] Like I said, there are equals, there are peers.
[00:12:44] Situation doesn't define them.
[00:12:47] And another thing we talk about a lot on some of the other podcasts is, and Kathleen hit on this a lot last week or two weeks ago in the last episode.
[00:12:59] Progress is not linear.
[00:13:02] As much as we'd like it to be, as much as we'd like to say, okay, this is. We're going to start here and we're going to end over there, and it's going to be a straight line shot. We're going to get there and this is. We're going to do this, this, this, and the other thing, and we're going to get there and that's how this is going to work.
[00:13:20] And we find out that that's not even possible.
[00:13:27] Progress doesn't always look like big leaps.
[00:13:30] Sometimes it looks like fewer meltdowns.
[00:13:33] Sometimes it looks like simply showing up.
[00:13:37] And sometimes it looks like one good day in the middle of ten hard ones.
[00:13:45] And homelessness is the same way.
[00:13:48] Someone might take two steps forward and one step back.
[00:13:52] They might relapse, they may disappear for a while, and they might need the same support more than once.
[00:14:02] And we've seen all of them multiple times.
[00:14:06] And that happens. And that's part of life, and it is what it is.
[00:14:12] And sometimes you need somebody just to outstretch a hand and say, hey, buddy, I got you. Stand up, let's go.
[00:14:21] That doesn't mean the work failed.
[00:14:24] It means they're human.
[00:14:26] And it happens.
[00:14:29] Doesn't make them any less.
[00:14:31] We all trip and fall sometimes.
[00:14:34] Sometimes where we'll get up on our own, brush ourselves off and keep going.
[00:14:40] Other times you need that hand to say, hey, I got you, man. Let's go.
[00:14:45] And that's alright.
[00:14:50] And when we would design systems that only reward perfection, we exclude the very people who need the support the most.
[00:15:00] Whether it be our students in school or special ed students, or whether it be our peers experiencing homelessness, the very people who need the support the most are the ones who get excluded. And that happens because it's not all about perfection.
[00:15:18] It's not the way it goes.
[00:15:22] And that's where we get systems versus humans.
[00:15:29] With that comes an uncomfortable truth.
[00:15:32] Both education systems and social service systems often prioritize order over people.
[00:15:42] They seek rules over relationships, or compliance over compassion, or metrics over meaning.
[00:15:51] And when someone doesn't fit neatly into their system, we blame the person instead of the structure.
[00:15:59] And why is that? We know we're not all the same. We know we don't all learn the same or we don't all live the same.
[00:16:08] Each one of us is unique. Each one of us is different.
[00:16:13] We're not going to all fit in the same system.
[00:16:15] Doesn't work that way.
[00:16:18] In special education, we're taught to adapt the environment, not punish the child for struggling in it.
[00:16:26] Imagine what would change if we applied that same philosophy to homelessness.
[00:16:33] Adapt the environment.
[00:16:36] When they're struggling, don't punish them.
[00:16:45] What a concept.
[00:16:48] There's another parallel that doesn't get talked about nearly enough. And that's burnout.
[00:16:54] Anybody that's followed us, followed our journey, followed. Pay it forward.
[00:16:58] And thank you for that, by the way. We really do appreciate that.
[00:17:03] The last post just came out the other day.
[00:17:09] Both of the pay it Forward pages will be deactivated and deleted as of January 31st of this year.
[00:17:19] Our website has been deactivated as of yesterday. It was still up last night when I looked. It hasn't been taken down yet, but it will. It will be. Everything shut down on it.
[00:17:37] The burnout is real, and it isn't from lack of effort. It isn't from not caring in teaching. Burnout comes from caring too deeply inside of systems that move slowly or resist change.
[00:17:54] And the same is true in homelessness advocacy.
[00:17:58] You see the need.
[00:18:00] You know what works, and you keep hitting walls.
[00:18:06] And that was what we ran into.
[00:18:09] We knew the need was there when we first started that Facebook group way back when, in 2020. December 13th of 2020. The Facebook group started simply as a way to connect people who had with people who need and vice versa.
[00:18:27] Through that, we quickly saw the need. We saw where the gaps were. We saw where people were falling through and struggling, and we knew something could be done to help.
[00:18:40] At that point, we weren't sure what or how.
[00:18:44] Neither Kathleen nor myself had any kind of experience in dealing with social issues, homelessness, anything of that nature. She was an accountant.
[00:18:56] I was a schoolteacher. What do we know about homelessness? Absolutely nothing.
[00:19:01] But we dove in.
[00:19:04] We found what worked.
[00:19:08] We had some amazing success rates.
[00:19:11] We had over 85 people in the time we were in existence that got off the streets and in housing.
[00:19:20] 85 people and many others that had turned their lives around and were well on their way to getting into housing or at least on a list.
[00:19:33] And we did this, and we were trying and we were working at it, and yet we were still hitting walls.
[00:19:40] And that's what led us to where we are today. That's what led us to the final post that I put out on Facebook the other day.
[00:19:48] Was it Thursday?
[00:19:50] I think it was Thursday that I put it up.
[00:19:58] That creates something called moral injury when you are forced to participate in systems that don't align with your values.
[00:20:06] When you know what works and you're trying to do what works, and. And you just keep being told no or pushed back.
[00:20:16] And it got to the point, and I guess I don't want to sound weird, but it got to the point. Kathleen had asked me the other night, she goes, you ever think.
[00:20:26] And if anybody knows Kathleen, you know, she's very. You know, both of us were very spiritual, very.
[00:20:34] She's in the crystals, you know, everything she said, do you ever think us being shut down was the universe telling us, we're done, it's time to Step back.
[00:20:46] And I hadn't really thought about that.
[00:20:49] I really didn't. I guess I never.
[00:20:54] I wanted to keep going. I wanted to push on. I knew the need was still there. I knew there were people that still depended on us and still relied on what we could provide.
[00:21:08] But she told me. She said, now think about this.
[00:21:11] She said, we were shut down back in April.
[00:21:15] Yeah, definitely were.
[00:21:18] And she said, we've been struggling and fighting nonstop since April to find a spot to continue to do the work that we knew needed to be done.
[00:21:29] And every time we thought we were getting someplace, something came up and threw us backwards again, or we hit that wall that stopped us dead in our tracks.
[00:21:41] It gets frustrating.
[00:21:44] She says, you ever think that's because we ran our course? We did what we needed to do?
[00:21:53] And it's possible. It is possible. It took me a little while to think about that, and I struggled with it. I struggled with this whole closing thing and not continuing. I struggled hard.
[00:22:08] She'd said, what if we ran our course? What if we did what we were intended to do? What if our mission was complete, at least our part of it?
[00:22:20] I kind of looked at her. I'm like, well, what do you mean by that?
[00:22:25] And she said, well, think about this.
[00:22:29] She said, what if our part in all of this was to bring the homelessness to the forefront instead of being tucked away and unseen?
[00:22:43] They're part of our city, too. They're part of this.
[00:22:47] They need to be seen. They need to be heard.
[00:22:52] What if we were meant to do that?
[00:22:58] And again, I was a little perplexed. You know, I'm sitting there looking at her like she's kind of talking Yiddish. And I'm like, okay.
[00:23:07] And she says, think about this. She said, when we first got here, when we first opened up and started doing everything we were doing, and I.
[00:23:15] Please don't get me. You know, this isn't.
[00:23:20] I don't know. I don't want to sound like, you know, it's because of everything that or what we've done, that everything is the way it is now. You know, there's a lot of organizations, a lot of people involved in this. A lot of us are fighting the same battles and we're serving the same populations.
[00:23:42] But she said, think about this. She said, when we first started out, she said the warming center was open for six weeks out of the year. Somewhere there about six weeks, two months tops, in the coldest time of winter.
[00:23:56] They're now open from November 1st to April 15th.
[00:24:02] They just recently combined with Hope Church Right across the street from St. Luke's and they now have a day center of sorts set up where some of our peers can go in to get out of the cold.
[00:24:19] I was told that there may be coffee there, whatever. I am not sure. I haven't been there myself, but it gets them off the street.
[00:24:30] They are in the library when it's open.
[00:24:35] And yes, I know, I read social media posts and I'm on Nextdoor, the Nextdoor app neighborhood, whatever one it is anyway. And I see a lot of people grumbling about the people in the library and I have to tell you, I chuckle. Some of these I see people say, well I was harassed or I was chased by these homeless people and I just sit and laugh and I'm like, well for starters, chance are pretty good. If they were one of our homeless peers, they didn't chase you. They don't have that much ambition or the bulk of them don't.
[00:25:06] They're not going to chase you. They may say something or ask you for something or whatever, you know, if you got a whatever for a soda.
[00:25:13] Chance of pretty good. They're not really going to harass you. I'm not saying that they don't. I'm not saying that's non existent but I know the bulk of them. I know 95% of our homeless peers out there and like any other population, you get some really good ones and you get some jerks out there as well. So I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it does.
[00:25:32] They're in the library, they're brought to the forefront. I see posts about all these places, all these organizations now that are doing meals or I just saw one, I believe it was City Vintage and Thrift the other day that had a post out about putting the hats, mittens and scarves around Fulton park.
[00:25:58] And we had started that back in 2020. I remember that one winter we put over 1700 bags of hats, mittens and scarves. And it wasn't just for the homeless peers, it was for whoever needed them.
[00:26:13] And we continued that and that ended when we ended.
[00:26:17] And I see that other organizations have stepped up and thank you for doing that. I really appreciate that there is a need in this city and that we are aren't able to fill. And I know I kind of sidetracked here a little bit, but it kind of goes back to the same, you know, where I was getting to with that is a lot of that stuff wasn't there. A lot of that wasn't in place.
[00:26:40] It wasn't seen or wasn't in the forefront like it is now.
[00:26:47] Maybe we did what we were meant to do.
[00:26:51] Maybe it was just to expose where the cracks were, where the gaps were, where there was inconsistencies and the people were falling through.
[00:27:02] Maybe it was to bring light to that and make our peers visible and human again.
[00:27:11] Maybe, just maybe.
[00:27:13] And I could be way off base, and that's entirely possible, too, because I've been known to be wrong a whole lot.
[00:27:21] You know, we were talking about the participating systems that don't align with your values.
[00:27:27] It's hard.
[00:27:29] It's real.
[00:27:31] And it's one of the reasons so many good people walk away from either line of work.
[00:27:37] Because they both are.
[00:27:39] And I don't share these to compare struggles or say one experience is harder than the next.
[00:27:47] I share it because I truly believe if we wouldn't treat a child with disabilities this way, why is it acceptable to treat adults in crisis this way?
[00:28:02] What if we met people where they are?
[00:28:07] What if we focused on their strengths?
[00:28:11] What if we valued those small wins?
[00:28:15] And what if dignity came first?
[00:28:19] Those questions guide everything we do, whether it's in a classroom or in a community.
[00:28:27] Think about that before we wrap this up.
[00:28:35] And I've kind of bent your ear long enough, I guess just myself. You're probably tired of hearing my voice, and I apologize.
[00:28:44] If this episode resonated with you in any way. I ask that you take a moment to like it, share it, or leave a review in your favorite podcast platform. It may seem small, but that helps these stories reach people who need them the most.
[00:28:56] The conversations that we have matter, and the more they're shared, the more awareness and understanding there is.
[00:29:04] We can build it all together.
[00:29:07] Thank you for listening and thanks for being part of this conversation.
[00:29:12] And as always, keep your heart open and pay it forward.
[00:29:25] Sam.
